Casting, Racism, Sexism and Kathleen Kennedy

You've mentioned this a couple of times, but I question whether "focusing on the fact that she's female" is a real thing. Can you point to examples within the films where you feel this is the case?

Side note: I'm excited by the turn to female leads, but agree with those who're annoyed that lucasfilm's imagination seems to only be able conceive of female leads as white and British. Personally I would've liked to have seen a woman of color cast as Jyn in Rogue One -- not for diversity's sake, but because it would've been consistent with the themes and representation (i.e. look at the rest of the cast!). Why not go all the way with this? It's as if they can only get away with a racially diverse cast if it's anchored by a white person.

 

Did you mean to say something @Protocol Droid?

 

I did -- sorry, edited my post above.

 

There are allot of strong female characters in the EU; Mara Jade...etc its about time we see them on screen. Aurra Sing, Ventress so many, even though those two are on the dark side. I'd like to see more of them whether they walk the dark or light.

 

Agreed. Would love to see someone like Ventress in the saga films.

With regard to comments in this thread and elsewhere about whether or not Rey is a "Mary Sue": I really don't understand why people think “Mary Sue” is a useful critical tool. You could argue that Bruce Willis in Die Hard is a Mary Sue – his only weakness is his bare feet. It’s like he’s Achilles. But aren’t all fictional heroes a form of wish fulfillment? How does labeling one a “Mary Sue” provide anything other than a gendered take on what is already an obvious take?

With regard to our favorite universe (Star Wars), I look at it more as Rey is an underwritten character and the plot of TFA is not that great either so it’s dependent on characters doing inconsistent or unsupported actions in order to move it forward. If we’re just considering Rey as characterized in TFA, she lives and dies relative to Daisy Ridley’s charisma, which fortunately is considerable. I’m optimistic that Rey will become a more complex character, within a more tightly constructed plot, in the hands of RJ.

 

U forgot Brunette.

But u covered the rest.

 

I didn't mean the films, but the marketing.

 

You dont see how Finn was humiliated so Rey could look good?
1) She beats him up the first time they meet. Despite you know him being the trained soldier and her being a scavenger. Then I dont need your hand.
2) Rey releases the Rathar, Finn gets Caught Rey saves the day
3) Finn cant find the right tool while Rey is fixing the MF and telling Han how its done
4) Finn gets a coma so Rey can ride in and look great winning against Kylo...Luke and Anakin took their beatings from Vader and Dooku but Mary Rey Sue cant get one from Kylo?

Why does the Falcon not need a Co-pilot anymore?

Granted we never knew what the Co-pilot did but Han and Lando still needed one and Rey doesn't?

 

Please can we focus on the subject as a whole, rather than getting bogged down with the details. this is usually how these threads turn to crap.

I've seen this enough times. I'm sure @Lock_S_Foils didn't intend to create an argument-based thread, but a constructive one.

 

I hope with films like Wonder Woman and Thor Ragnarok ( Cate Blanchett, Hela), we get more strong female characters(Mara Jade, Ventress, & Bastila Shan to name a few). Whenever I think of Rey I think of that powerful Jedi in the Old Republic video who wields a double bladed light saber. Can't recall her name... I'd like to see Rey evolve to that.

 

Nice try but no cigar! Anakin sucked as a pilot as he has never even finished a single race before the Boonta Eve and he didn't build C3PO from scrap either. He found the droid almost complete and just had to attach a few parts same as his podracer.

Anakin also worked in a junk shop where it was obvious that he would could practice his mechanical skills. Now Rey's story on the other hand makes no sense. An abandoned girl left under the care of a dorky blobfish that hardly cared for her and didn't even feed her if she didn't work. Are we supposed to think that Plutt showed her how to fly? On what? Assuming Rey had the same mechanical aptitude that Anakin had so that we can get that out of the way, did Plutt take the time to give her fighting lessons as well? Did he somehow manage to get a Wookie on Jakku and showed her how to understand Shyriiwook? He took Rey to droid school and showed her how to understand droid speak as well? Did Plutt take Rey to the Kiffar so that she could learn how to glimpse images from the objects she touched?

You see, it's things like these that make Rey an incredibly overpowered character. Problem is that people mostly don't want to see this and quickly tag you as a hater when this is not the case. I like the three main characters of TFA yet Poe and Finn were not made to be overpowered characters while Rey was.

When you look at Anakin's character you can see how he could do what he did and even then, after he grew up he still sucked at alot of things and wasn't perfect. Just looking at AOTC and then ROTS we can see that Anakin: Lost his lightsaber, then got it broken, then got captured, then got his butt kicked and his arm chopped off, then got trapped by ray shields and needed a droid to save him, then got seduced to the dark side by the very man he was supposed to hunt, he was reckless, he sometimes acted evil, he was ambitious, he blamed others for his faults, he didn't listen, he was a vile betrayer............... We can go on and on talking about Anakins imperfections yet what negative quality can we find in Rey?

 

Nine year-old Anakin is a Gary Stu.

Many of those Anakin defences you used can easily be applied to Rey.

 

How was Ripley not a Mary Sue?

Did you not watch Alien, Aliens and the garbage sequels after?

She was a warrant officer for commercial freighters. She was a civilian on board the Nostromo.
Yet somehow, she's the one who lives....every. time.


She was very much a "Mary Sue" if Rey is the barometer for one.

 

The hero Living doesnt make one a Mary Sue.
That is Plot Armor.

Mary Sue is in its simplest form is a character who is great at pretty much everything and that all the other characters love.

 

Bingo. Luke was largely too.
But shhh.

Never flew off planet but managed to beat out the TIE fighters and sink the kill shot without using a scope because "the force"

--- Double Post Merged, May 14, 2017, Original Post Date: May 14, 2017 ---

Yes Ripley. Ms fix everything, shoot everything, know everything.

Calling someone a Mary Sue is just generic plot armor.

 

Not really. I thought you cared about definitions...

 

You were the one contradicting yourself about it earlier.

Being "overpowered" as a Mary Sue or Gary Stu is, is just the same as plot armor. It's just a subgenre of it.

You can have little kid plot armor.
Tom Cruise type plot armor.
Overpowered (Superman/Mary Sue/Gary Stu)

 

I wouldn't go as far as to call Luke one. He gets saved by his friends many times: Ben on Tatooine three times, and Han twice there as well. Ben, Han, Chewbacca, Leia, C3P0, and R2D2 all save him on the Death Star. Vader and Tarkin let them escape.

Luke is called one of the best bush pilots on Tatooine by his friend Biggs Darklighter. Later on Han saves him from Vader, and Ghost Ben gives him advice.

So, in other words Luke was close to being one, however the plot comes up with clever ways to avoid that. I'm sure Rey will get the same treatment in TLJ.

Anakin had incredible skills at nine. Simply stating that Rey's power subconsciously grew over time is a simple and fitting solution, considering she has 10 years on Anakin.

 

I can drive a car. I can't drive a race car at 200 mph without wrecking out.
My uncle can fly a plane. He can't pilot a space ship.

It's not exactly the same.
BB8, Han and Finn save Rey too. (The third act)

(I don't think there's a problem with either of them being this way, just pointing out the blinders people use because Rey is just different)

 

No they didnt.
Rey had already broken out of prison and owned Kylo (with no training).
Rey then saves herself and Finn from Kylo.
Rey saves Finn from the Rathars.

Luke was a mess in ANH. And didnt really come good until the end of the movie when he shot the Deathstar.
Before that he was a mess that needed help from Kenobi, The Droids, Leia and Han.
He got owned by everyone which works fine because his backstory was farmboy who can fly and shoot a blaster well enough.

Rey on the other hand had Finn to take all the Ls while she got wins and if she messed up the first time she fixed it the second time.

Finn was Luke you know minus the force powers confirmation, being the actual lead or coming good at all in the end.