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Does anyone care about the characters that are left for Episode IX?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode IX' started by VOODOO, Dec 31, 2017.

  1. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Rebel Official

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    As an OT guy who felt let down by the last film, I really do hope JJ hits it out of the ball park. I still like Rey as a character, even if I don't like where they went with her last time out.

    As much as I disliked Holdo, I love Poe's arc in TLJ to become more of a leader. I really hope we see him doing just that: leading.

    I'd love to see Finn as a Jedi padawan and I love BB-8 so I'm looking forward to seeing more of him.

    I know I'll get more excited about the film as the release approaches, and certainly as the trailers come out. At the end of the day, I'm a fanatic for this franchise. So yeah, I'm excited to see what happens to these characters. :)
     
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  2. Aquila

    Aquila Rebelscum

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    I never said people can't enjoy TFA or TLJ. I said that I do not enjoy them as I thought I will. So the fact that you enjoyed it doesn't necessarily make you a "drone". Nearly mindless defense of everything in that movie, including its obvious flaws, inability to accept that there ARE flaws there, aggression towards those who point them out etc - that makes a drone. I don't know you well enough to judge if you fit that category or not. I think you just took it personal while it was not pointed at any particular person.


    And again - true to some degree. For example I dislike all those "Marvel superhero" movies, all those Black Panthers, Thors, League of Justice, Captain Nicaragua or The Adventures of a Cockroach-Man and Pidgeon-Woman. Or the whole Transformers franchise. To me they are like a cancer on cinematography. But that's just me, I do not watch them but I do not forbid anyone from watching and enjoying them, I don't care. I prefer different types of movies even though I don't doubt these ones are very well technically made (good visuals, sound etc).

    But of course there always is a line between good and bad taste. Someone may enjoy fart jokes and laugh all day watching movie with dozens of them. Someone may go and passionately tell me how he loves movies where girls with oversized eyes are raped by tentacle monsters and that it is his most favourite type of movies. That's cool, but I would be very tempted to say that his taste is really bad and that we have nothing to talk about anymore. You may call it however you want, but that's how it is. I am a tolerant person, but there is a line I'm not going to cross. I do not forbid people from enjoying what they enjoy, but I do judge people by what they enjoy and what they don't. And everyone is free to do the same when it comes to my person.


    You can't say what is a good quality and what isn't? You can't tell the difference between "The Dunkirk" and "The Sharknado" or between "2012"/"Armageddon" and "Deep Impact" or between "The Lord of the Rings" and "Dungeons & Dragons"? Are you saying that you can eat a tasty, well made pizza with a lot of ingredients and a burnt one made with bad ingredients with hair on it and say they are both the same and you enjoyed them both equally?

    I always thought that finding out what is good quality is just... natural.


    Logic. Rational thinking. Basic knowledge of science and basic taste.

    Logic/rational thinking:

    Bad Guy point his gun at the Good Guy. He definitely wants to kill him. Movie 1: he shoots the Good Guy. Movie 2: he comes too close to the Good Guy and starts telling him everything, including revealing his secret plan. Good Guy hits him and escapes.

    Verdict: the scene in movie 1 is good quality, the scene in movie 2 is bad quality (I hope I don't have to explain why).

    Basic knowledge (of how bodies work in this case):

    Bad Guy was literally cut in half. Movie 1: Bad Guy dies. Movie 2: Bad Guy survives and later exacts revenge.

    Verdict: movie 1 is ok, movie 2 is bad because suggesting that someone could survive such injury is simply insulting.

    Basic taste:

    Man and Woman go on a date to a restaurant. Movie 1: they start talking, getting to know each other. Movie 2: Man farts. Woman laughs. She farts too. Then they fart and laugh for 12 more minutes.

    Verdict: movie 1 is ok and movie 2 is bad.

    And call that however you want, but I refuse to agree that movies number "2" are as good as movies number "1", or that it is debatable. And that I can't tell they are bad because it may offend someone who liked them. If someone liked them - it's their choice. Tolerance is great, but too much tolerance is bad. Same with almost everything.

    I'm sure there is a lot of other "great" movies some people loved and watched a lot. Popularity and box office result is not related to movie quality. There is a lot of movies which does not deserve their BO performance and there are movies which should earn a lot more.

    Compare this movie:

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/shawshank_redemption/

    and its $58.3 million result with this one:

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/transformers_age_of_extinction/

    and its $1.104 billion result.

    Different times, different target audience, different marketing, true. But I find it sad that it seems more people prefer movies like Transformers than those similar to Shawshank Redemption. And I'm almost sure I would find quite a lot of people who would defend Transformers franchise and say those movies were "awesome". Unfortunately it is not enough to really consider them "awesome".
     
    #242 Aquila, Jul 30, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
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  3. Corn Cream

    Corn Cream Rebel General

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    I wish I did, but it's hard when the characters have motivations I can't understand. I hate Rose's character, because she was written very selfishly. She was talking to Finn about her sister dying, and him wanting to run away. Calling him a deserter. Did I miss something? When did Finn join the Resistance? How dare this child speak to him in that way. How much did Finn lose to get to that point? The man just recovered from having his back split, and the first thought to come to Rian's mind when it comes to Finn is consider him a selfish traitor? WTH? Why would Rian think Kelly Marie Tran was going to be so loved is beyond me. Finn was well received in TFA.
    Attacking well received characters is not going to get you a pat on the back.

    Then you have Rey. Just like Finn I have no idea why she is doing this. First she was supposed to get Luke. People always assumed she was going to be trained, but I felt it would have been better if she wasn't. After all she never showed any strong desire to know the force. She only picked up the lightsaber because Finn used it to defend himself against Kylo. That's not a good enough motivation to suddenly want to know the force. It was an opening, but what Rey needed was a history lesson of the force, and from there they could have given her, her own motivations.

    When your two leads motivations are murky it's hard to care what they do going forward. I don't know whose purpose it serves. They seem like pawns being manipulated around a board. I knew what Rey and Finn wanted in TFA. TLJ tells them what they should do.
     
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  4. MellowJoshua

    MellowJoshua Clone

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    Both Rey and Finn have the same motivation, to find their place in a galaxy that they feel like they don't completely belong in. The whole point of Rey's story was to come to the realization that her waiting for someone else to tell her what to do or what path to take is never going to work. She waited her entire life up to that point for her parents, they never showed. She ventured out to find Luke so he could teach her and tell her exactly how her life was going to be mapped out from that point on, he wasn't the hero she had quite anticipated. She then put all of her eggs in Kylo's basket to again have her hopes shattered. Leia's final line to her, "We have everything we need", was meant to enforce the idea that she doesn't need to look for something outside of herself for answers. She can be the strength she needs to carry on. Ep.9 should see her come into her own power. No longer looking for others to light the way but to make her own decisions and possibly teach others.

    Finn is in a similar situation. Coming from an upbringing purely militaristic and fighting for a cause that he was forced to believe in, when he finally decided to ditch the FO and be a free man his past of taking orders and rallying behind a cause couldn't be abandoned. It has been ingrained into him that he needs to be willing to sacrifice himself for whatever faction he binds himself to, hence his willingness to ride straight into the cannon without hesitation or his reckless attack on Starkiller Base and Kylo in the woods. He never realized that he could do more than die for something. The way Rose spelled that out for him (and her character in general) could have been handled better but it does leave him in an interesting spot moving forward. What role will he take in the new Resistance? Will that lesson have truly sunk in or will he continue to throw caution to the wind and jump at every suicide mission without a second thought? I also desperately hope they don't keep Rose and Finn tied together moving forward. I kind of hope they drop her completely or relegate her to a background role like Connix.

    All of that being said, I definitely am interested to see what happens to these characters next. Kylo is by far my favourite SW villain and I want to see how much more crazy he has left in him (by god do NOT redeem him PLZ).
     
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  5. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel General

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    In my experience as a teacher, people are generally graceful in accepting criticism of what they like or what they produce if criticism is analytical, constructive and geared to help or inform. The problem arises when criticism is negative, diminishing, comes from a place of intolerance, of arrogance, of set conventions and norms that don't give a chance to new ideas, or is unable to articulate why these new ideas do not work. If the parameters of criticism are "good taste" you need to define what "good taste" is. If "good taste" is simply a subjective bias, a set of values acquired by a certain education or upbringing, your criticism unfortunately will be unhelpful and invalid. There is nothing scientific about "good taste". Even Literary Criticism, which is an attempt to comment objectively in literary pieces has many theories and approaches... Absolutes are difficult when human sensibilities are being analysed.

    How many pieces of comedy are in poor taste and still work and make people laugh... Deconstruction and subversion are great creative tools, even though they sometimes challenge conventional "good taste". Comedy series "Bottom" in the UK comes to mind.

    And people do like different kinds of movies for different reasons... I wouldn't judge anyone for enjoying and finding some sort of value in a film that would bore me to tears. I have grown up with people who thought I am crazy for enjoying ANH, saying that "it was rubbish". I always laugh and try to explain these people why I love it so much, and do not judge them for not being able to appreciate it.... even people with "taste" so very similar to mine... But hey, we all have blind spots. :) I don't get Marvel or Transformers either, but I'm not the right audience. You have admitted as much yourself.

    I also know that some films are made to be consumed at the box office for repeated viewing and others are mainly enjoyed in the tranquility of one's own home. Box office successes are not always the preference of everyone. Also, as you have said, there are many factors which determine the success of a film in the box office.

    As for wishing people liking certain stuff, well, yeah. I personally would love that more people were inclined to learn Greek and Roman history and civilisation, and then read Homer, or Virgil, or Euripides, or Horace. Classic antiquity has a lot to teach us, particularly to the young, and there is nothing like reading these authors first hand. But I'm perfectly aware that I have gaps in my knowledge too, of comics, of pop culture, of history, and that perhaps they prevent me from enjoying certain things or certain films.
     
    #245 Kylocity, Jul 30, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
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  6. Corn Cream

    Corn Cream Rebel General

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    Finn is mentally tough. He shown that throughout the FA. He did what he wanted to do. It was because of this he feared for his life with the FO, so saying taking orders is like second nature to him is false. Finn didn't have a desire to sacrifice himself. His instinct was survival, and that was getting away to the Outer Rim. You say his attack on SKB was reckless. I don't see anything that. It was the only plan they had. They didn't have the time to come up with another strategy. His battle with Kylo in the woods was a no choice situation. He and Rey were trying to get to the Falcon, but Kylo stood in their way. What was he suppose to do? He can't be a coward as some want to see him as, and then be reckless when confronted by a murderer looking to kill him. Finn always wanted to survive, so I don't get this notion he never realized he could do more besides dying. Finn willing to sacrifice himself for the Resistance makes no sense for a guy who wanted to get away a week ago. The Resistance needs Finn. Finn doesn't need the Resistance. Without him they would be dead, so they aren't in the position to tell anyone what they need. They need to kiss his ass and be grateful they are still alive because of his so called recklessness.

    Rey waited for her family, but Maz was the one to tell her to seek out Luke. She didn't want to. If it wasn't for Finn wielding the lightsaber I doubt she would have embraced the force. She didn't want to be alone. She wanted friends and family, but she wasn't looking for someone to guide her. She was looking for someone to love her. That's her weakness. The fear of being alone. When given the opportunities to have guidance from Han and Maz, she turned it down. The thing is neither Rey nor Finn need anything from the Resistance. It is they that needs them, but I don't get that impression when watching this film.
     
  7. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

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    I care a great deal about the OT characters still left, and am especially excited that Leia will be in E9.

    I care somewhat about the characters introduced in the ST who are left.
     
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  8. Snazel

    Snazel Rebel Official

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    Nobody, the top selling film of 2017 is a disaster, the highest box office of last year is a film everyone hates and a franchise ripe with new series, new films and supporting entire new streaming platforms, has no future at all.

    "Star Wars is dead" is trending right now on Hyperbole.com as I type this.
     
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  9. dudebrohomie

    dudebrohomie Rebel General

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    Somehow I managed to age way more than 40 years in the 40 years since I first saw ANH when I was 7.

    I"m firmly in the camp that went "that may not turn out well" when the OT characters....well the actors....were announced for TFA. I could see the logic: "40 years have passed, so they're just older!"

    My preference would have been to recast the characters, and start the story from a few years after RoTJ, but I liked TFA a lot, and loved TLJ, so I'm happy with what we got.

    The problem with the 40 year time jump is that there is just so much 'space' to fill in story now which, if they decide to do, will call for recast characters anyways. So why not just start there and do it right?
     
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  10. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I only care because it is Star Wars but that unnecessary ending/epilogue of TLJ made the movie the "Real" IX so there really isnt much to care about...
     
  11. Trev

    Trev Rebel General

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    Lots of people care about these characters, and besides, all of the Original Trilogy characters are returning, with the exception of Han. We’re getting Luke, Leia, Lando, Chewie, C-3PO and R2-D2. I swear, this fan base is literally NEVER satisfied. There is so much to be excited about with Episode IX, and even though this is coming from someone who LOVED The Last Jedi, I would like to think most fans still have some sort of anticipation being that it is the final film in the Skywalker saga.

    Regardless, I really think this trilogy succeeded in a lot of ways where the prequels failed. (I really enjoyed the prequels, too, don’t misunderstand me.) But for the most part, it really messed up in making audiences care about the characters, but I felt like the sequels pretty quickly made me invested in Rey, Finn, Poe and Kylo Ren. Obviously not everyone enjoys those characters, but I still think a lot of people do, and they’re gonna have to because they’re still the focal point of this trilogy.
     
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  12. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi General

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    I care...

    Lucas always wanted the original 3 to return to Star Wars years later( 2011 to be exact), and it was always suppose to be 12 films. Obviously over the years George changed his mind. Just like he changed his mind about after 6 no more Star Wars. I was saddened by this at first, I wanted 12 films like he suggested before ( not gonna say promised).

    Anyway, great idea of recasting the characters ( they wouldn't have needed to force Ford to return for 7) since Disney owned them now. But since all 3 were still alive and kicking why not send off the right way.



    How ironic, the next generation(Rey) handed him the saber and he tossed it away...
     
    #252 Rogues1138, Aug 8, 2018
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  13. Johnny Thunder

    Johnny Thunder Rebelscum

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    It was like after John Lennon was murdered and then everyone realized...oh, man...now we'll never see The Beatles together again. We might get some lost recordings finished by the other 3 but the chance we had to see them all together again is gone forever. We had the chance to see Han, Leia and Luke together again and it was tossed away like a family heirloom.
     
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  14. p03

    p03 Force Sensitive

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    I don't know. I sometimes I think I'm being forced to like characters. I feel pressured by Disney folks on here and other media platforms to characters that I refuse to give.

    I ain't going to be pressured into liking a character who's only action is to flap her eye lids and run after a man.

    I am not going to be forced into Kylo Ren and am not going to be forced into a a narrative of the alter ego Ben Solo just because of his last name.

    I don't like how bloodlines are made to be untouched. Like Skywalker's are pure bloods and that's the only thing that matters. That's creepy it sounds like force users should be purified through eugenics. It's tiresome and time to move on.

    I know I can fall in love again just sadly not with any of these current characters. :(

    Am not done with star wars yet am still here waiting and praying.
     
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  15. Ghost of Obi Wan Kenobi

    Ghost of Obi Wan Kenobi Rebel Commander

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    Here are the issues I had with TLJ which JJ Abrams has an opportunity to fix:
    1) give Finn a different story arc. In VII, it was “guy tries to run away, then learned to be a hero through a friend.” In VIII, it was.... pretty much the same.
    2) Rey really needs to step it up. She was powerful and independent in VII, but in TLJ, she made a serious error in shipping herself to Snoke’s doorstep and unintentionally letting him obtain all the information about Luke from her. I wanted to see her do something radically different at the end, more than just lift rocks.
    3) Poe Dameron comes off as a “know it all,” I hate to say it. I have friends who did not care for him in TLJ, so I hope the guy can balance leadership skills with climbing into an x-wing and blowing stuff up.
    4) Broom Boy. Believe it or not, but he was the most intriguing character in TLJ. I would love to see him in IX, though I seriously doubt JJ will do that. I think Broom Boy functioned more a symbolic reference.
     
  16. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Force Sensitive

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    It’s ok that your not invested in this trilogy but we must be watching different movies. I’m not sure who the character is that bats her eyelashes and goes after the man is. It is not Rey. If you are referencing Rose, well maybe, but she is a supporting character.

    Rey being a nobody strikes a dagger into the being a Skywalker is the only thing that matters. That is definitely not what this trilogy seems to be portraying.

    Not much I can say to you not liking Kylo.

    I don’t think anyone is forcing you to like anything.
     
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  17. Adam812

    Adam812 Rebel Trooper

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    Broom Boy is getting a trilogy.
     
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  18. Johnny Thunder

    Johnny Thunder Rebelscum

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    Yeah, but themes!
     
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