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Homosexuals in Star Wars

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Books & Comics + Legends' started by Voxx, Sep 28, 2015.

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  1. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
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    I don't like brussel sprouts. I find it distasteful that anyone would ever include them in a meal, as I find them personally offensive to the taste.

    This, however, does not give me the right to demand that a restaurant not include them on their menu. Nor does it mean that if a restaurant does feature brussel sprouts that the chef is undergoing some progressive sprout-driven agenda to force my acceptance of brussel sprouts. It just means that the chef likes brussel sprouts. And I am welcome to not eat there if I don't.

    It's only ever the people that are against homosexuality that think if it is included in a film in an fashion it must be due to some progressive agenda to convert the masses. But that is a reactionary opinion from a place of personal bias. To those with no bias against homosexuality, its just a storytelling option no different than a heterosexual relationship would be. If someone finds its offensive, they do not have to watch the movie. If that number of people who would do so was significant enough, because Disney is a business, they would put a stop to it for fear of losing money. When homosexual relationships (just like we have previously seen with interracial relationships in the past) hit the point that they are offensive to a minimal enough number of people that it would not be significantly impactful to the bottom line, then you will see one in a Star Wars movie.

    So, regardless of your personal beliefs, rest assured. If this is truly offensive to half the population (which I don't believe to be true) the parent company will not allow it in the film. But when it does appear eventually, it will indicate that the bias against relationships like this has grown so small, that its time for those with that minority opinion to either accept it, or just chose not to watch.
     
    #101 Rebo, Feb 29, 2016
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  2. Empire Jo

    Empire Jo Force Sensitive

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    What does that even mean, 'you don't agree with the lifestyle'? What's to agree or disagree with, if being gay is not for you, don't be gay. Your phrasing doesn't come across so great. I hope it was just a poor turn of phrase. What if I said, I don't hate people who believe in God, I just disagree with the lifestyle? Or, I don't hate Americans, I just disagree with the lifestyle? I don't like to eat breakfast, but I don't feel the need to have an oppinion on those that do.

    Why would you include a homosexual relationship in SW? For the exact same reasons you would include a heterosexual relationship. I hope.

    Most of my friends are not SW fans, but I was talking to one of my close friends who is a SW fan about this topic and he said it makes him sad that there isn't gay characters in SW, as though its not something common to the human condition and should be hidden or something.

    In a way it makes me sad that people are more comfortable viewing genocide, torture and violence than gay characters.

    Actually, reading most of this thread just really made me appreciate how lucky I am to live where I live, and how fortunate I am to be surrounded by people that don't feel the need to make judgement calls on how other people live their lives.
     
    #102 Empire Jo, Feb 29, 2016
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  3. Fooled Trooper

    Fooled Trooper Rebel Official

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    So, you see no way or even the possibility that it could be? Sounds like a reactionary opinion from a place of personal bias.

    Either way. I just can hope the Story is better then Aftermath...I would be an awful waste of potencial.
     
    #103 Fooled Trooper, Feb 29, 2016
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  4. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
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    Sure. Anything CAN be agenda driven. Even posts in a message board. But the ability to contain an agenda doesn't mean it is driven by an agenda. But the assumption of an agenda as primary reasoning for existence before the product even exists exposes a bias.
     
    #104 Rebo, Feb 29, 2016
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  5. Fooled Trooper

    Fooled Trooper Rebel Official

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    The same assumption in reverse is a bias too. At this rate we have to wait and see the quality of the product.

    I just want to express my causion...I want Quality over anything else.
     
    #105 Fooled Trooper, Feb 29, 2016
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  6. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
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    Exactly. Never said otherwise. Unfortunately, agenda is mostly determined through intent, and that determination is subjective. So, some people whose bias is too ingrained (not accusing anyone here, just in general) will still see an agenda regardless. That is why we still have people crying "agenda" over black storm troopers and female leads. That bias makes them see an agenda, where most just see casting and story decisions.
     
    #106 Rebo, Feb 29, 2016
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  7. MarkaN

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    If it serves the story and is natural than ok. If it's made just to appeal that certain audience an would stand out of the story than it would suck, seriously.

    For example, I had absolutely no problem with hedonistic lesbian imperial officer from Lords of the Sith, or the gay one from Lost Stars because they were treated normally and only enriched the story with their diversity.
     
    #107 MarkaN, Feb 29, 2016
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  8. SeaFishelle

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    Oh yay, a gayness opinion board!

    Okay so. I'm a girl that's into girls. So take of that what you will. Do I think there should be a gay couple in Star Wars? I'd say "no", based entirely on the lore. LET ME EXPLAIN.

    The evil side of the galaxy (Empire, Sith, First Order, w/e) are incredibly xenophobic. In canon, the Empire alone slaughtered entire species just because they weren't humans, and those that are allowed to live are treated as less-than-citizens. The Empire is based on Nazi Germany, which itself had a history of slaughtering what it considered to be "lesser" people, including the Jewish and gay people.

    If we tried to sneak a gay couple into this, it'd have to have focus and that's not what I want. The fact that characters are gay should never be the point of the narrative in something like Star Wars (in my opinion anyways). However, in order for it to work with the world and the style of storytelling Star Wars requires, you'd HAVE to focus on it. Characters that are just randomly gay being uncontested in a galaxy where the major bad guys slaughter anyone that's different simply can't just be ignored. But I want it to be ignored when it's used, which is impossible in this situation.
     
    #108 SeaFishelle, Mar 2, 2016
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  9. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    In the new canon, the gay people ARE uncontested. We already have several gay characters that are in the position of power in the Empire (Moff Mors from Lords of the Sith or Sinjir from Aftermath who worked for Empire's secret police, for example). The Empire might be based on the Nazi Germany but it isn't Nazi Germany. The Empire's biases are not earthly biases. So there is no reason not to represent a gay person or a gay couple the same way as heterosexual person or a couple. They already did that pretty well in the new canon (in the novels) - if someone is gay, it's a fact like a color of their eyes or their accent or the way they like their blue milk and not an issue.
     
    #109 LadyMusashi, Mar 2, 2016
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  10. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    and yet it's canon that the Empire does not actively discriminate against homosexuals (see Aftermath).

    otherwise, i think the de facto general inclusivity of Star Wars should preclude the need for sexuality to even be an issue. in other words, since it's not an issue to be gay in the galaxy, who cares? the sex lives of Star Wars characters doesn't seem to be purposeful to the story except to propagate skywalkers and i'm not sure why that would need to change.

    @LadyMusashi beat me to it. but there you have it. hahaha
     
    #110 FN-3263827, Mar 2, 2016
  11. SeaFishelle

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    OOOHHHhhhh okay. I'm sorry, I didn't read Aftermath or Lords of the Sith, so I was unaware that this was already a thing in the new canon. I retract all that I said.
     
    #111 SeaFishelle, Mar 3, 2016
  12. Ralok-one

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    Can we talk about how weird it is that the majority of efforts to make Star Wars more progressive have been focused on diversifying the bad guys? Its really really realyl reaaaaaaaaaaally a weird and odd movie, Ithink almost everyone can agree on this?

    At best, it is just confusing and nullifies the bad guys (a bit)... at worst, it makes it seem like they are saying "gay people are villains"

    I just find it highly confusing that it is not the Rebel Alliance or Republic that has been the focus of these efforts. And that the Gay people in the empire face no prejudice whatsoever...

    I feel like its a bit of an elephant in the room... But... on the other hand... when there are aliens around, aliens tend to become the focus of prejudices rather than race or sexuality... I guess... we dont have a good basis for that in reality, but it would make sense right? I guess?

    I feel like it needs to be explained better... and doing that would seriously distract from the overall story...
     
    #112 Ralok-one, Mar 14, 2016
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  13. Fooled Trooper

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    No. Never in my life did that thought occurred to me...

    Star Wars is about Wars in the Stars...there are more important issues at hand...Every Race seem to be more centered on their culture, meaning they are mostly unified and whole but struggle against other forces like those who are more ideologically in nature...Because the way others are governed dictates the future of your way of life...
     
    #113 Fooled Trooper, Mar 14, 2016
  14. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    Not really.

    I gave the examples connected to the Empire because we were talking about the Empire at that point, but Sinjir is actually one of the heroes of Aftermath (and my personal favorite) even if he used to be part of the Empire. I am assuming he will get even more page time in Aftermath: Life Debt (I cannot wait see him interacting with Han Solo and Chewbacca) and Aftermath: Empire's End. Temmin 'Snap' Wexsley has an aunt married to a woman, another character has two fathers (I am blanking out now who it was). It's not just the Empire, not just the bad guys. They are just treating these characters as they should - like everyone else. Their sexuality is part of who they are, not everything and only thing important about them.
     
    #114 LadyMusashi, Mar 14, 2016
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  15. JeffG.

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    #115 JeffG., May 3, 2016
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  16. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    That's one big organization to pressure Disney but think of it like this - if Disney hadn't bought LFL and we didn't make "Poe <3 Finn" a thing, would they be pressuring star wars at all ? In my opinion, we don't need to know every single detail of a developed character besides physical traits and general background that's relative to the story unless LGBTQ is the entire point of the story but if that's the case, then I think it would be too obvious they're doing it over pressure...
     
    #116 AstromechRecords, May 3, 2016
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  17. JeffG.

    JeffG. Ewok Hunter
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    What's the Q stand for in the Acronym?
     
    #117 JeffG., May 3, 2016
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  18. FN-3263827

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    i don't get this.
    when sexuality becomes a plot point of Star Wars, this will be an argument worth having perhaps?

    until then, so far as i know, the only characters we have any sense of sexuality in TFA are Han & Leia ~
    ~ and only because they are the only ones who obviously engaged in a physical heterosexual relationship (at least at some point 30 years ago, right?)
    and the only reason we know that is because it's an important plot point that they produced a son.

    aside from Finn, nobody else has stated or declared anything of their sexuality in TFA (except maybe Maz if you take her remark about Chewie seriously and Ren if you want to interpret his smouldering glances as lust?).

    maybe Snoke is gay. maybe Luke is gay. unless they fall in love or something, i don't see how it's remotely relevant.
     
    #118 FN-3263827, May 3, 2016
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  19. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    It stands for "queer".
    --- Double Post Merged, May 3, 2016, Original Post Date: May 3, 2016 ---
    Lol that would be the biggest twist in this trilogy if they're actually scorned lovers...and yeah we had discussed this a while ago in this thread that there's absolutely nothing wrong with it but it's probably not a good idea to shove it purposely down everyone's throats for the sake of it but rather have it happen naturally IF IT DOES.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 3, 2016 ---
    .
     
    #119 AstromechRecords, May 3, 2016
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  20. JeffG.

    JeffG. Ewok Hunter
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    queer? It's what gay is. Need two letters for the same meaning.

    Edit: Apparently the other word for Unique is "dirty". Lol :rolleyes:
     
    #120 JeffG., May 3, 2016
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