Ignoring the Star Wars haters

For me, there's always one question left unanswered: When is the point, where "hating STAR WARS begins? Do I hate SW, when I have my favourite movies and some movies I don't like that much? Do I hate SW, when I'm just interested in the episodes, but not in the stand-alone-movies? Do I hate SW, when I always refused to read the 'Legends', because they seem to be too strange for me? Do I hate SW, when I never liked the Ewok movies or the animation series like TCW or 'Rebels'? Do I hate SW, when I say, that 'Lord of the Rings' is - compared to the OT - the better trilogy? Do I hate SW, when I'm just not interested in it? Do I hate SW, when I like the first three/six (or any other numbernetween - acutally - one and eight) episodes and I don't like the following?

I mean: I have to know, how I decide, which one I have to ignore, when I follow the advice, that is given in the thread title...

 

Imo there are three groups of haters which can't really be addressed in any normal way (one which dosen't lead merely to finger- pointing, and/or ad hominem attacks).

There is nothing anyone can really do with the one in OP's example, those who hate TLJ (and modern SW in general) merely for being a Disney product (a very big and loud protion of the haters) or for political reasons (another large and loud portion), outside of ignoring. Addressing them mostly just fuels the fire. Maybe leave a clever retort and leave it.

If you visit the Youtube channel "Jar-Jar Abrams" occasionally (which I firmly don't suggest), you can find a cesspool of such people. It's more than apparent that they just simply want to hate these movies, no matter the reason. TLJ only "gave" them one by having a plot which differs from the headcanons and preconceived notions of many. But they were strongly biased against it (to say it politely) long before the release.
Sadly, there are many on the Main Forum as well ever since TLJ. There are also many who pretend not be from that group (becuase that usually gets them immidiately banned from any civilized colloquy), but you can immediately tell they are (mostly becuase such people usually aren't the brightest bulb on the porch).

The times when we were criticising Star Wars merely for what's in the movie (like with the prequels, or the special editions) are long gone, sadly...
And thus we come to a different group of (non- politically fueled) haters one can't really do anything with. Those who want Star Wars to be something it has never been. Those who criticise the movie for what's not in the movie.

Star Wars has never been a story with too much (or in many cases any) exposition for instance. The OT kept it simple and straightforward, so it worked for most of the times. The PT did it far more convoluted, so it worked to a much lesser extent. Villains pop out of nowhere (Dooku, Grievous), unexplained motiovations (Maul), completely unaddressed main plotpoints (clone army and Syfo Dias), missing context and details (such as why was a "Trade Fedaration" fully armed to planetary and space warfare) and so on. So, to those people I can say the same prequel fans said to me in the last decade+ : Read the books. It's your personal problem, but not a real argument against the movie itself (mostly). But it's still the way SW is and was.

The are many valid criticism against TLJ which address the actual contect of the film and not the lack of one's headcanon. But sadly I see less and less "Why did Admiral Ackbar die off-screen?" and far more "Feminism has ruined Star Wars and America" and "Why Luke isn't x or doing y?"

This "I don't care about your opinion" approach is the third that can't and shouldn't really be addressed (thank you for the example though). Don't come to a forum if you're only here to preach your cognitive dissonance- ridden dogma, than it's you who's wasting his time.

Btw, the prequel hater-apologist war has been going on unabated for nearly 20 years now. You immensely underestimate the Star Wars fandom...

 

I looked backed at my history and I couldn't find it. It probably got deleted but I still think it wouldn't prove anything. Majority of people that answered (I think is was around 50 +/- people who did the poll) enjoyed the movie. I even called out the hater who created the post that the numbers wasn't supporting his bias. Man I wish I could find that thread, it was entertaining. I think it ended up getting deleted because I can't find it in my history.

 

Thank you for being a voice of wisdom in this crazy, crazy bubble of Star Wars fans.

 

Obviously, it depends person to person. You're right that there's a lot of silly stuff in what could collectively be called "Star Wars", like the Ewok movies.

Heck, I don't particularly love the prequel movies, but still consider myself a really big fan.

I think that ultimately, it depends on your perspective. I hate Attack of the Clones, but I see that it's necessary for Revenge of the Sith, which is in turn necessary for the Galactic Civil War. Would I have liked for Attack of the Clones to be a better film? Of course, but as is, even with my dislike of it, I recognize its importance in the saga.

I guess part of the problem I have with criticisms of The Last Jedi is that they're so nitpicky. Again, this could all be perspective, but it's easy enough for me to pick apart glaring problems with the prequels, not only from a lore perspective but from a basic filmmaking perspective. With TLJ, a lot of the perceived problems actually have pretty reasonable explanations (such as the bomber "gravity" issue). That's not to say that there are no flaws with TLJ (there are, obviously) but that it kind of feels like the goalposts have changed.

 

I could say exactly the same about people who did like the movie who are gravitating towards threads, posts, tweets, etc..... that are talking about things that they didn't like about the movie and telling people they're "wrong for DIS-liking the movie" and are been every bit as rude and insulting as those attacking people who did like the film.

Again same things work both ways what do those people who like the film get by attacking those who didn't?
The answer is quite straight forward a lot of people struggle when other people don't agree with their opinion so go on the attack. Its happening both ways here, it isnt that the people who liked the film are acting angelic and respectful towards those who have issues with the film.

 

there's no way i can sit idly by while haters hate TLJ! i will never ignore them and will always continue my fight! it's either you love TLJ... OR DIE!!

i consider myself a SWJW: a Star Wars Justice Warrior. if it's Star Wars, you have to love it. otherwise, you're not a real fan, have unoriginal ideas, can't get over your nostalgia, and are all sorts of misogynistic, racist, and ignorant.

the true crusade has begun! death to all TLJ haters! death, i say! deeeeeeeaaaaaaaaatthhhhhhh!!



i have to say, any thread that includes the word HATE in the title definitely opens the door for people to be hateful jerks. i'd love to see a, "TLJ Critique" thread because, like most everyone, there are definitely parts of the movie i didn't like and there are definitely parts of the movie i thought were amazing.

Obi Wan said it best: "Don't give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."

 

@Trevor has kindly decided to repay all ticket fees to all those who hated TLJ. How nice.


MOD EDIT: This was a joke and Trevor understood it!

 

I think the real paradox here is that the backlash is diminished as being purely "mad people online", when the defense is coming from people online who are mad in response. In that sense, journalists in our modern world are also "people online" since we read their articles on our phones, computers and tablets. It's not like we're sitting down in a café having a real deep conversation with these journalists.

Today, internet has become such an integral part of society that insulting someone for saying something online as "hiding behind a screen" has lost its meaning. People are so busy calling out people online when they forgot that they're online doing the exact same thing.

In that sense, if the internet didn't exist - how would people who didn't like the movie have voiced their criticism? They would have found other ways. It just so happens that the internet does exist and people use this medium to reach out.

EDIT: That being said , it seems as if Ben Kuchera on Polygon was mostly concerned about calling out the racists and sexists. He kind of chose to overlook the criticizers whom, you know, just didn't like the film.

 

I think, at least in part, that sentiment refers less to angry fans online (who, obviously, are people), and more to the implication that it looks like Rotten Tomatoes was spammed heavily in parts by bots (who are obviously not people, and therefore can't form a valid opinion on the movie).

That's my take from it, at least. I can disagree and debate with a person online, and it's fine if we walk away not having changed each others' minds. But for a large group of bots to have been created does a lot to derail the opposition party's credibility, in that it's tough to accurately even gauge their numbers (though we can well assume they're less than they appear).

 

Send your ticket remnants and requests for full refunds to:

Mr Trevor SWNN
C/O Lucasfilm Ltd,
Skywalker Ranch,
Lucas Valley Road,
Marin County,
California, USA.

Please also include a transparent self-addressed stamped envelope for your cash to be returned and stolen by your friendly local thieving postman.

 

I don't mind the backlash, it just leaves us fans more slices of enjoyment to go around

Really though it's only been like 5 weeks since the movie has been out. It hasn't been out on retail yet, we haven't yet been able to watch it at our own paces and leisure and haven't gotten to really dig in and fully cozy up to it yet.

Most people I know liked it better on subsequent viewings.

It'll take time; many movies today considered as classics were panned when they first came out.

 

I've seen TLJ 3 times and not one mad, angry, dissatisfied people throwing tantrums. All laughed, clapped and had a good time and afterwards spoke highly of the movie.

But some here and around the net will try and convince people that the keyboard TLJ haters are an angry majority of star wars fans. When there's not a single iota of truth to it. Small...very, very small of people with a vendetta.

 

I agree with pretty much everything you say, my issue was that your original post, and many posts in this thread are acting like it was all the people who hates the movie doing the baiting/being abusive when it really isn't.

But I agree if you loved the film was fantastic im both happy and jealous, If you hated it, i feel your pain i'm utterly gutted i didn't like this film.

I would add though their is nothing wrong with healthy debate, I mean were Star Wars fans we've been having discussions about where the Ewoks great or annoying for 35 years, arguing about the prequels for nearly 20 years it's nothing new and in can be fun and interesting. Not to mention you can learn something and expand your knowledge of a film. I mean i dunno about you but i avoided all reviews before i saw the Last Jedi, So when i walked out of the film thinking it was a bit of a mess I naturally assumed everyone would be thinking the same. Obviously when I started reading reviews, talking to people that wasn't the case, yes lots of people hated it but more loved it and reading and discussing what people like about the film was interesting, It hasn't changed my opinion of the film( I wish it had) but i has shown me things i missed first time round, helped me understand how people can not be bothered by things i hate. Its a far more interesting world becuase people have different opinions to myself, how boring a forum would this be if some one created a thread saying i think this and just every post underneath was just "I Agree". I don't want to log on to this forum and have all the like minded people in their own group, it will make the place far less interesting.

We don't need to the debate to stop, we need for people to be able to cope with the fact that people don't agree with them with resorting to baiting or been abusive, which unfortunately is an issue with such a divisive film.