Is Ben Redeemable?

That's a stretch.

Then you might as well absolve Ben of all his crimes.

Rey is canonically shown to be forgiving and the reason they connect is plain as day- they both are intensely lonely people. Besides Snoke's a goddamn liar. The Force Bond's been there since before they met. She's dreamt of him and he knew "a girl". Snoke may have manipulated the bond but he had no role in creating it.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 7, 2018 ---

You can't get a redemption arc without committing your crime.

 

Stop right here.
They are not lovers. They just aren't.
Will they be? Maybe who knows. But they aren't now. And for this to matter, they would have to be lovers BEFORE either the turn or the redemption. Otherwise she's just Maclunkey Kylo. So now your theory would have to included them building time, after what happened in TLJ for Rey and Kylo to bump uglies to become lovers THEN she also has to redeem him? IDK if even galactic poon is that good.

The Novelizations are, at best, rough guidelines right now. And yes the move "pushed him to the light" but he still committed the act.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 7, 2018 ---

Why? Because Snoke manipulated him? But he still did them. That's like forgiving Himmler because Hitler was in charge.

Yeah sure, If killing Han Solo was his only crime. But it wasnt.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2018 ---

blast. This constantly turning back into Reylo saps the fun out of talking Ren in any fashion. Im out. Have a fun day.

 

She won't redeem Ben Solo. That's the whole point. He's going to redeem his own damn self. They've already done the loved one redeeming the villain route. He's gonna pull a Zuko. Y'all just wait and watch. Kylo staying with the FO is just the cave scene where Zuko betrays Katara and Aang after almost joining them. And we know what happens next.

R E N D E M P T I O N A R C I S C O M I N G

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 7, 2018 ---

It's obvious he's talking about the dynamic between them and not their actual status. Don't be pedantic.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2018 ---

If Hitler was established as a magical mind manipulator who's been screwing with Himmler's mind since he was but a wee thing in Mrs Himmler's womb? Yeah, it would make forgiving Himmler that much easier.

You quite literally cannot convict a person who's mentally compromised. Insanity plea and all that.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2018 ---

I'm genuinely sorry that you find our theories so unpalatable that you'd rather not talk about your favourite character.

 

I didn't say they are lovers, did I?

Fair enough.

 

Renperor does not need or want your redemption!

Seriously if I had to guess. Ben will have a change of heart and realize his mistakes but die. He might save others but likely won't survive.

 

abso-tiva-lootly !
i'm a little surprised that anyone thinks that Luke redeemed his father.... only his father could do that. Anakin chose the light side... he redeemed himself.
i'm happy with thinking that Luke 'saved' his father.. in that he showed his father true love, strength, heart and courage.. showing his father that there is another path, but Anakin had to choose it.

Rey cannot turn (let's not use the word redeem.. turning someone is turning someone) Ben. If someone could 'turn' someone from the dark to the light... that's no better than what Palpatine did to Anakin in the first place.. turning someone against their own Wil for their own reasons.

Whatever happens to Ben in the future, i truly hope that he no longer feels torn apart.. and that he finds solace with decisions he makes and the life he goes on to lead.

it's up to him now.... as it always was.

 

Ben finally has the power/opportunity to make fully autonomous choices.
i don't imagine he'll make good ones at first, but he'll learn quick what's right and wrong.
hopefully he does indeed have his father's heart and will make the right choices.

i would like to see him put himself into a peaceful exile, but have Rey go with him ~ and together they can figure out the new jedi together.

 

This is exactly what I’ve been thinking too!

The parallels between the Avatar animated series (blue arrows, not blue people ) and this new trilogy so far have been extremely evident to me, such as Korra changing her outfit from something which reflects where she came from to more neutral colours, much like Rey. Ben/Kylo is absolutely a Zuko-like character. The Awakening of the Force is very similar to how the ability to airbend, which had almost become extinct, returned and awakened in many who had previously not shown any abilities with it. The similarities really do go on and on, and they might be purely coincidental, but I think we could see one more thing.

Oh, and much like Zuko, whilst I will root for the main character (Aang/Rey), Kylo Ren is by far my favourite character in the sequel trilogy, and very well could be my favourite character in the entire franchise when IX comes to an end.

Prior to TLJ, I was suggesting that Ben either turns darker and kills Snoke, taking the throne at the head of the First Order for himself, or attempts to be redeemed but is denied by the Resistance, and so the film closes with him leaving into the unknown. Then in IX, we pick up with a certain thread which I think would have been important to his overall arc and he finds his place in the galaxy before returning to the Resistance and helping them to take out Snoke.

The thread I wanted picked up in IX, and now still very much want picked up in IX, is that Ben idolises Vader without the knowledge of who Anakin Skywalker really was. I think that his arc needs to have him visit Tatooine to learn that he is the grandson of a slave who was born without a father, because Ben’s someone who feels that ruling the galaxy is his entitlement due, primarily, to his heritage. Learning that his idol was a slave, I think, should give him some much needed perspective if he is to be redeemed.

My problem with the future of Ben’s arc right now is that Star Wars has shown that there is a toll to pay for your evil actions, even if you do redeem yourself. Yes, Vader saved his son and defeated the Emperor, but he loses his life in the process.

What could Ben possibly lose which would potentially bring an end to the Skywalker Saga, meaning that the spotlight isn’t on the Skywalkers to determine the galaxy’s future? And supposedly without ending the Skywalker bloodline with him?

Answer: his ability to use the Force. TLJ introduced us to the notion that one could severe their ties with the Force, and I think that Ben will make the choice to severe his ties with the Force altogether come the end of the film, regardless of whether his future has Rey by his side or not.

I’d argue that him not ending up with Rey could make for an even more interesting arc in that sometimes redeeming yourself doesn’t always bring about the future that you wanted, but I don’t mean to turn this into a Reylo thread (we have enough of those debates as it is!).

Luke says it himself: Skywalker blood is mighty. With this might comes the choice to harness that innate power for good or for evil. The in-universe reason for this immense power being passed down the bloodline is pretty obvious: the sheer number of midi-chlorians evident in Anakin is a trait which has been passed on to future generations of the Skywalker family. Severing Ben’s concentration of midi-chlorians could disable his Force abilities.

I think that this would be the best route to nullify the Skywalker family and bring an end to their story: they would still potentially be important members of the galaxy, but their immense innate power would no longer determine the future of the galaxy alone.

However, one other problem I have with Ben’s redemption arc is that whilst him turning and fighting by Rey’s side could come about through his own choice, it would seem to suggest that there is a being more powerful than him or Rey alone which would require them to work together. I simply do not think that Hux and the Knights of Ren alone could raise the stakes any higher than they were in TLJ*; I think that there will have to be another greater force at play if Ben is to have a redemption arc. I’m not specifically referring to Snoke or Plagueis, but I do think that there has to be an immensely powerful entity which could serve to raise the stakes one final time.

*my reasoning for this is that Hux and the Knights of Ren serving as the primary antagonists feels much like where we were at with TFA, except it was Snoke and the Knights of Ren if they’re still around in the background somewhere.

 

I Believe Kylo is not redeemable, i like that he is the big bad of the sequel trilogy, and that his own ambition to be the supreme leader, be everything he wants to be and fulfill every darksider dream of being at the top of the food chain will be his downfall. Rey being his counterpart the incarnation of humbleness and humble origins, i belive thats also a strong message being no one and being better than the guy who had it all and was supposed to be everything.

I see him killing one of the new big 3 in IX, (Rey, Poe or Finn) and dwelving as the biggest baddie out there.
He will fight Rey, probably loose and die, maybe they strike each other at the same time and both die tragic deaths? (What's for sure is that she will try to redeem him, and that this battle will be amazing)
IDK

All Hail Supreme Leader Kylo Ren!!!

 

In Ben's eyes, he has already redeemed himself.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 8, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 8, 2018 ---

LONG LIVE THE SUPREME LEADER!


wud?

 

I hate to say it, but I don't think he is. In TLJ he had a second chance to go back but chose not to. His first chance was with Han and he blew that too. The ending where Rey closes the ramp on the Falcon to me meant she was done with him. He's committed to the dark side and he has all the power in the galaxy as supreme leader, which Vader never had. After all, only Kylo can save himself and I don't see why he would. He's got power, control, and I would say he's a true sith Lord now. Be careful what you wish for is the moral of his story I think. This is just my opinion though.

 

Yeah, that’s what I got from it too. She quite literally closes that door on him.

Whether or not it’s opened again in the future remains to be seen.

I feel like the story could have a much greater impact if Ben attempts to redeem himself but isn’t absolved of his wrongdoings, isn’t accepted (by everyone), or doesn’t get the ending that his redemption might warrant in some people’s/his eyes.

At the end of the day, this is Star Wars, and so his actions - regardless of his motivations in the past or in the future, or where his loyalties could yet lie - will have consequences, redemption arc or not, and that’s a very important message to maintain, at least in my opinion.

I think the redemption arc is still on the table; I don’t think that means he necessarily gets the happiest of endings.

 

i think that's okay so long as he takes it well. the important thing is for him to grow and acknowledge and accept.
how outsiders see him is irrelevant compared to how he sees himself and his actual place in the galaxy.

 

Precisely!

When Luke tells Leia on Crait that he can’t save Ben, it’s true, and neither can Rey; only Ben can redeem himself and turn the wheels towards his change.

He himself thinks that he’s a monster, and I think that tells us just how far gone he really is, and how twisted his mind has become. That, more than perhaps anything else, is the scar which Snoke has left on his life. I don’t think there’s much outside of himself (apart from possibly Leia’s passing?) which could instigate his redemption, and I think his arc will be much deeper, profound, and - most importantly - relatable because of this if he is to be redeemed.

I’m really excited to see what JJ’s got planned for us, and I really hope he proves those wrong who have doubts about his ability after some of the backlash he received with his handling of TFA.

Only 710 days to go...(and yes, the countdown begins NOW!)

 

i don't see how he can be redeemed in Ep IX without it seeming like another corny copy of the OT. Abrams burnt out all his gimme OT copies in TFA. so he will have to end KR/BS's story on a very different note.

 

this is what's so heartbreaking. it feels like his whole life he's been told he's a monster and he's at the worst place of accepting that (and still trying to measure up in some backwards way). he needs to be told he's not a monster and convinced of it (and not want to be one) in order to win him back. and that's a hard row to hoe for anyone, let alone given the extent of his path thus far.

barghhh! hahahaha

 

Im really not sure if he will be redeemed. With the parallels with the OT, I could see a reverse here where he isn't in the end. Vader choose light for the love of his son ( finally saving someone from dying) by destroying his master. Kylo has already destroyed his master and is still in the dark. What would he say to redeem himself, "Opps, sorry, my bad". I think he may not be redeemed and destroyed in the end, opposite of Vader.

 

the assumption is that he's going to go on destroying things. but from the TFA novel we know he wants to build.
it will be interesting to see whether he turns out to be a Renperor or a Benperor.

chances are he's going to come into conflict with the rest of the FO on their program.

 

That's news to me.

Snoke ordered the destruction of the Hosnian System, Hux and his subordinates executed it.

"Evil" is a far more fitting description for Sheev or Snoke, than Kylo Ren.

 

Hux hates him, he will do everything, help the resistance a bit if he has to, to topple his new supreme leader.

I seriously think Ben won't be redeemed, perhaps he will have a final moment of clarity or contemplation just before he dies, but it won't be the product of active agency like Darth Vader's turn. I think that's probably the best way. Kylo already considers himself to be redeemed and freed from the shackles of Snoke. He literally hates his killing of Han Solo as well as the mere thought of killing Leia. He's a different kind of evil with a taste of weaponized empathy. I really believed that all he does and says in relation to Rey is ultimately the product of his empathy. But that empathy always has a more sinister quality to it. He want to help Rey, he is intrigued by Rey, sees himself in Rey, pitties her even and hopes she will be with him. That she sees the humanity of his attempt to "let the past die". Rey literally closing the door on him is a massive disappointment. He misses her. He's a rage quitter. If you don't get what you love or want, you'll destroy it.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 9, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 9, 2018 ---

On screen Kylo commits only two atrocities. He killed his father and he gave the order to execute the Jakku prisoners. That last one puts you in jail for 40 years if you're judged guilty by the Yugoslavia Tribunal in The Hague.

This contrasts with Darth Vader. In the original trilogy Vader commits two 'minor' offences in retrospect. He executes one prisoner on the Tantive IV by choking him (Captain Antilles) and it is implied that he tortures Leia.