Is Ben Redeemable?

Somehow, I get the feeling Kylo will be put in cell. Since this trilogy seems to focus a lot of the Force, why not put him in a prison controlled by the Force?

 

in Gleeson's own words, he fears/hates him, but also respects his power in some fashion.
they'll definitely try to use each other up until they can't compromise or work together anymore.

as for being a rage quitter, you're absolutely right. he's still just a petulant foot-stomping child.
if one of the themes of the ST is about growing up, then he's got one more movie to do it.
and without Snoke, he just might. : D

 

I think that we should all consider that all the threads may not necessarily be tidied up by the end of this trilogy. Disney clearly is looking to make SW a regular cash cow and so we can expect many more films. By having a full redemption OR death of Kylo, and therefore a thoroughly victorious Rey, there would be little else to explore in any further movies. I suspect that we may see Kylo and Rey united to fight a common enemy in episode IX (with copious amounts of Reylo teasing that lead to nowhere) followed by the pair going their separate ways at the end of the Saga. This would leave the characters in a situation that is ripe for cameo appearances or even full blown movies at later dates. There's no way that so much time is being invested on the force wielders if one or both of them is due to kick the bucket any time soon. Just my opinion of course!

 

Chances improve somewhat 4 KR to live if KK is no longer producer by the time 9 films.

 

The fact this is so true is making me think Kylo is the greatest villain of the 21st Century thus far. I say that jokingly, but....am I?

 

**looks around the Cantina**

No, you're pretty on point.

 

If we have a time skip in IX say 6/7 years that will take Kylo over 35. He will be nearing 40 around the same age as me. They can't have him as kid at that age he will have to mature. If they go for time skip angle that is. He really is adult at that age he would be a pouting old man, he would have to go darker and the film more psychological. I wouldn't mind a pathological war monger but I think it would be to much for Disney. So if the time jump occurs I dislike redemption anyway but if you go in that direction no way you could sell me on a living redemption on that.

 

I wonder if Ben will ever get to know the truth about Anakin? He knows about Vader. I think if Ben was to get redeemed it would be somehow truth about Anakin that would turn him. Meaning that Anakin was a good Jedi until Palps turned him.

 

Well, at least he isn't an automaton like his gramps.
Darth Vader was a great villain but he was also a controlled one, we have yet to see what Kylo Ren is capable of in all his unsuppressed childish glory.
So yeah, he has great potential.
.

 

I've never read the novel, but what I'm trying to say is by letting the truth of Anakin change him. Seeing the good of Anakin.

But you make a great point. I was just thinking how Ben wants the past to die, but it will take the past to redeem him. If they go that route that is.

 

YES.

#SaveBenSolo FTW!!!

 

I've long been standing that Ren should stay evil through this trilogy and then down the road in a new trilogy be redeemed.
It'd be like if Vader was redeemed at ANH (or time wise, sometime before ANH really). He's evil for a bit then, all better.
Vader was Vader for 20+ years. He's been Kylo for what, half that?

 

Why is Kylo Ren doing what he is doing? The answer to this allows us to work backwards towards his redemption (if that makes sense).
The problem is that there are two main reasons as far as I can see - and both conflict with the other and present two different obstacles.

The first, is that he has this idea that he is "better" than everyone else and should rule the galaxy. In order to do that, he needs to have the strength of Vader, which means killing his past (and those he loves) so that he isn't attached to them and rids himself of compassion. This is the wholly selfish, albeit warped, view that I believe Kylo Ren has. It's the "we can rule the galaxy and make it the way we want it to be" Anakin schtick.

The second, is his anger at how he has been treated, along with his psychological issues. Born with immense raw power that he didn't understand/control/focus, neglected by his parents, manipulated by Snoke and driven away by his uncle. This is the Kylo Ren that Rey has compassion for and wanted to help. This is the side that still bares some small element of Ben Solo, before he fell. It's the scared child, confused and conflicted and in serious need of a hug!

But you ain't gonna redeem Ben Solo without tackling both of these elements. So how do you do it?

Well, first, he needs to be shown that this idea he has of ruling the galaxy, of having ultimate power and that he is better than everyone - is wrong.
In a lot of ways however, the seeds of doubt have been sown and will continue to be sown upon is mother's death.
Kylo realised that his father's death weakened him. However, he tried to go further in TLJ and remove the past entirely.
Come IX, Han, Luke and Leia will all be dead. And I have a feeling that Ren will soon realise that, even with the past dead, the Dark Side hasn't given him the power he thought it would. Alongside this, he'll surely be witness to the disorder, not order, that the First Order has brought to the galaxy - just as the Dark Side has brought to his own mind. It will not be a comfortable throne for him to sit upon.

I think the final piece of that jigsaw, to pull him back from the idea that the Dark Side = ultimate power and that he should rule, will be none other than the chosen one himself. Anakin can fill in the pieces about what it was to be Darth Vader, what he lost and how he never had real power - that it was a lie. The Dark Side only brings destruction. This will then allow the inspiration of Rey to guide him down a more compassionate path and thus rid himself of the secondary issues. For once he lets go of this idea, likely planted in his head by Snoke, that his destiny is to rule the galaxy and finish what Vader started, he will have no reason to fight back against the pull of the light, which has always been there. Essentially, Kylo admits in TLJ that he loved Han and that was why he had to kill him. That's not to say he isn't angry about being neglected and betrayed by his own family - but it does tell us the light was still there. And once he loses this false destiny and with his family all dead, he'll only have one other thing to care about - Rey. And he'll listen to her/be inspired by her - especially as she never betrayed him, understood him and lived through a similar experience. Going forward, if there is perhaps some galaxy destroying event that requires Ben Solo to help Rey save the day, this will then complete the turn: from rejecting love and wanting to rule the galaxy to embracing love and giving his life to saving it, thus finally experiencing true ultimate power.

 

At the risk of sounding like I'm a Kylo apologist or Reylo advocator (I'm not either)...

Power, definitely.
Control, sometimes...over some others sure.
But now he's found an equal for the first time in his life he seems obsessed.
Rey may be equally as addictive as the dark side for Kylo and the kid may yet realize how boring and/or aimless his life would be without her to play with.

He's also had a whole life of power and privilege and it only seems to have added to his arrested development.
That social awkwardness when he finally finds an equal is funny and tragic. The way he blunders through his We Can Rule Together appeal...

Good point - it had to made.
And where was Kylo in all this?
When Hux pitches the destruction of the Hosnian system Kylo gives him a slow, hesitant look and later distances himself from Hux's speech and ceremony. The next time we hear from him he's lamenting feeling pulled to the light.

If he does manage to wrest himself from the grip of the dark it'll require an inner strength and resolve similar to Finn freeing himself from his indoctrination.

 

the power and privilege is what's actually monstrous. that's the problem.
he thinks this thing, this destiny, is all he has and all that defines him.
even as he lectures Rey and wants to burns the galaxy down.
he's still a prisoner of others' fears and expectations--as much as his own.

 

Actually, I wonder if he won't break. He's been shown going into fits of rage. Hux hates him. He's haunted by his patricide, and I imagine by his failure to kill Luke and letting key resistance personnel escape on Krait. He made a conscious choice to be a monster. I wonder if he's prepared for the consequences of that choice. I wouldn't be surprised if he fully snapped.