Is Ben Redeemable?

Redeemable, absolutely. But there must be a cost to pay for the level of atrocities that he has committed. He's certainly not romance material after all of the evil that he has partaken in. If someone were to write a story about a girl who took in someone who has been a maniacal killer for all of his adult life, someone who murdered his own father among countless others, someone who ordered his troops to not even spare his mother and take no prisoners and then sought forgiveness and the girl took him in to ride off into the sunset to make babies with, folks would mock that story relentlessly due to the abusive nature of their relationship and his murderous past. But somehow with Rey and Kylo, it is OK with an alarming number of people.

I can forgive him, but that does not mean that he should be absolved of the consequences of his murderous ways. Luke and Leia forgave Vader, but they had to hide their familial connection to him. When it got out that Leia was the granddaughter of Darth Vader, she was shunned politically and it ruined her career.

His redemption will come with a price and he might pay with his life for it like Anakin did.

 

I don’t think it’s quite that black and white for all Reylo shippers and also with this mythology we all need to remember it’s fantasy and not a real world situation

However...

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 17, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 17, 2018 ---

I do agree with this. For many of the star wars films we never see consequences of actions. Maybe I’m missing it but the first one that really stood out was Poe nearly destroying the resistance fleet. I will probably think of some later but anyway...

I completely agree he will and can be redeemed but at what cost? And that could go for both sides

Like I’m curious how the truth about how Snoke was killed is going to come out. I mean how is Rey going to explain it, Hux clearly doubts it...maybe that can set the seed for a redemption or atleast a direction

 

#AnakinForceGhostInEpisodeIX

That's why a lot of people is seeing the parallels between Anakin/Padme and Ben/Rey. Anakin had love but was driven to embrace ultimate power.

Wait a minute...

Who was the one who said:

"I would burn down the galaxy if I thought it was right."???

Daughter of Darth Vader.

 

You were fast. I thought I caught the mistake pretty fast lol.

 

Yeah, I'm sure there will be some big costs for Kylo whatever decisions he makes.

Technically he's already showing signs of "paying for his atrocities" emotionally and physically. What he does to others he also does to himself etc...

What makes him so interesting to me is his complexity. He can be everything from an upstart rebel who's a bit of a dick though to a violent and unstable monster.

But he can also be read as misguided...

An unfortunate kid who was led astray and got caught on the wrong side of a war. Someone who needs some transformative justice and to find the right enemies!

I'd advise against anyone I know dating a Kylo for sure!

In fiction I'm open to whatever makes a good story. SW already has quite a history of romance between opposites and members of hostile factions (I'm thinking of Luke/Mara Jade and Asajj Ventress/Quinlan Vos) - and some of them are good stories.

 

If it turns out Han had something more to do with his death he *may* be redeemable. I know there was a theory that Han ignited the lightsaber himself (to help his son) but it was debunked in the book. So that may not be the exact way...but if perhaps there is more to Han's big finale. However, if Kylo did indeed just kill him in cold blood, he won't be redeemable enough to walk hand in hand into the sunset with Rey. (I could see him pulling a last minute sacrifice.")

 

Another twitter post that made me smile...

 

I just don't get what you would do if you turned Ben good, their arn't any other credible villains left, they have killed off Snoke and made Hux into a comedy side character. I suppose they could introduce a new villain but its a bit late in the game and who? one of the Knights of Ren, we've already been told kylo is the Master of them9so obviously the most powerful) plus turning him good kind of abandons the whole Rey been the light arose to meet Kylos dark, if the main villain turns out to be some one else it would make that whole plot line and the reason Rey is so powerful utterly nonsense.

Plus i think a third film of will he won't he turn good would be a bit repetitive.

 

At the end of the final film in the trilogy, there doesn't need to be a big bad guy left, does there?

And perhaps we are looking at something a little more complex than simply Light-Dark, good guy-bad guy, and a more nuanced understanding of the function of the Force in the ST?

Stories are set up so that things develop along the way toward a specified end. If a development like the light arising to meet the dark leads to that end, how does it make it nonsense? Rey rising as a counterpart to the dark of Ben is leading toward an end to the trilogy, and in my opinion this end is the restoration of Ben Solo, completing the redemption of Anakin's bloodline and finishing what he started in balancing the Force.

 

Redemption. Absolutely.

What would have been the point of placing the audience at the centre of the baddy’s inner turmoil in a Star Wars movie if there wasn’t a redemption plan ahead? What would be the point of all this nuance if not to give a positive message to the audience about the ultimate power of good: redemption?

If faceless Vader found good, Kylo will too, with more reason, either in this trilogy or the next (if they care to make another one). We are too invested in him. Kylo will never be a Darth Vader. When we were introduced to Vader we knew nothing about him, just that he was terrifying. That’s not the case with Kylo. Kylo’s actions are terrifying but he is not.

And why do so many people look down on Reylo or shy away from it? Romance would make this sequel truly epic. But I’m biased. For me the best stories are always love stories . As I said before on another thread Kylo and Rey last scene should echo the final encounter between blind and frail Mr Rochester and a fully grown, independent Jane Eyre.

 

No but you do need an enemy for our heros to over come and the only viable one set up by the story is Kylo Ren. So the only point you can turn him would be right at the end of the third film.
In which case in order to do that it would mean spending another film teasing Kylo becoming good, which would mean the audience would be watching it and not feeling that are Heroes are in danger becuase at any point becuase the story would have to be telling tem that he could turn and isnt really a bad guy. Not only that but you would be doing the will he won't he turn good for the third film in a row, their is a massive risk of repetition their.

that would be great to set it up, currently they havn't.
They have set up Rey and the light counter part to Kylos Dark, you then want to redeem Kylo making him good and bringing the light and the dark togther in some profound story. In order to do that you would have to have a reason for them to come togther, sonthing for them to band together agaisnt, but their isnt anything, just Kylo.

 

What would be the point of his redemption? He's the last member of his entire family, so no happy reunions or Ewok parties for Ben!

 

i wouldn't write off Hux just yet.

yes, he got beat like a dog, but when a dog decides to bite back it's never pretty.
and that last shot of Hux glaring at Ren on Crait, i think, is a promise of upheaval to come.

 

They have made him into a comic relief character. Even gettig him to be taken seriouly by the audince would be quite hard at this stage.

I suppose they could do something like they do with Wormtail and Saurman that wormtail gets so sick of hm he stabs him in the back but thats abut it. He can't be the end villian our heros have to defeat it would be like at the end of harry potter turning Voldemort good and harry's epic show down is with Filch.

I mean the Idea of Light Rises up to meet the dark and they must now band togther to defeat.... Hux that comedy side character from the last film ..... it would be awful.

 

So, I haven't been reading the last eight pages, but my two cents:

If Vader is redeemable, Ben most certainly is.

 

eh, i have no problem recovering Hux as a credible threat. he failed no more or less than anyone else in TLJ.
Ben and Rey vs. the whole of the FO is formidable enough if they're bearing down on them.
this has thus far been a trilogy with a lot of intimate battles; the psychological ones perhaps even surpassing the physical ones.
ultimately the rubber is going to hit the road with Ben's ideologies and the FO's intentions and things are going to get very messy.

you think it could be awful and that's fair enough, but Hux isn't stupid even if he was made to look stupid.
and the audience underestimating him might be Snoke assuming his apprentice can't turn on him all over again.

 

If the films came out in episodic order, Vader's actual redemption is a more difficult pill to swallow.
You don't see *as much* of the evilness he portrays and his descent to darkness.
Ren has already done more damage on screen in 2 films than Vader did in 3.

When you then see Vader is a child murdering, genocidal monster from the PT and extra reading material, his actual redemption is incredibly far fetched.
It's why he is really only redeemed to Luke and Leia to a lesser extent.

We are more or less out of people for Ren to redeem himself to. Maybe to himself but that'd feel hollow.

 

really don't get it, he was made out to be a comedy charactter, not this great plotting person capable of been a credible threat that heros have to over come at the end of a trilogy. They havn't made him seem particularly wise or strong or cunning. i mean you said it yourself the films have made him look stupid. he's just comic relief. You can't have a guy like that as the climatic villain of a trilogy!

Do you attucally want him to come the main villian or is it more a case of you want Ben to come good so much you will accpet anyone taking over as the main villain?

 

i just don't underestimate Hux. period.
i don't stop believing Ben is a powerful Force user just because a nobody girl trashed him in the woods.
and i think Hux and Ben have an interesting and complicated history.

now that they're out from under Snoke, it's going to get even more complicated.
i find that compelling. i think it can work. the FO isn't going to fall into line with their new Supreme Leader and Hux is going to stage a coup.
at least that's how i can imagine things going down.

and yes, i'd like to see Hux become the main villain.
in the same way Rey nobody can become a jedi, bastard Hux can be Emperor.

 

Hux was treated the way any non-magical person would by someone like Snoke and Ren.
He was the one who implemented tracking them. He actually makes smart choices, for the most part.
He isn't driven by blood lust like Ren is. He's driven by a desire for respect.