SPECULATION Is Luke Rey's Father? - The Evidence For and Against

I think "wisely" is extremely subjective. Who's job is it to decide if the desire to save some one is "a selfish desire to control things? or simply just "hey this is a good person who doesn't deserve to die" or "Hey if this person is capable of being redeemed and can lend a hand to the greater good, why not?" Luke didn't give up any sort of desire to save anyone. That's exactly what he did. In fact if Vader had given up his "selfish desire" to save the life of his son, well let's just say we'd be looking at a much different sequel trilogy. None of this "attachment" stuff has anything to do with the originally trilogy. It was created for the purpose of giving Anakin something to whine about. If he had been able to visit mom whenever he wanted, she could have protected her, and she would't have died. If he hadn't had to keep his marriage secret he could have been given some actual guidance about those dreams about Padme's death, then someone could have slapped him in the face and said "dude, quit being a moron" before he was too far gone. Heck having his mom around probably would have kept him from being the whiny self entitled brat he was. Shmi was a humble, kind person, she would not have put up with that.

 

Someone has a breakdown of all of Pablo Hidalgo's statements. I'm too lazy at this point to dig through 227 pages to keep rehashing the same stuff over and over. None of it is definitive, but it's better than the innocuous Kennedy quote we've bludgeoned with to death.

The biggest thing for Jedi's is to be selfless. They think not of themselves. Which is why Luke can only have a child if he's clueless about her existence. Another lost Skywalker child story is tired, but it seems some people want the same kind of story told over and over.

 

come on now my dear friend... we've got 377 days until episode 8 'possibly' answers some of these questions.

we're all gonna bludgeon these things many more times... stay the course !

 

Well, crap, I tried not to go down this rabbit hole again when I said I wasn't looking for a debate on "attachments"... again.

But it is clearly a topic that gets people talking!

I know we are never going to see eye-to-eye on this, but here is the thing. Your whole view is based on this idea that a threat against one's family will be used against a Jedi and tempt him to do evil things. By that logic, we should never allow anyone with a family to serve as a police officer, in the military, etc. In response, you can liken a Jedi to a monk and say they are different because they have some supernatural power, but it really isn't any different. Police and military have "supernatural" power when compared to everyday citizens. The Jedi as they are known in the galaxy are not pacifists, they do go out into the universe to serve and protect.

Does a police officer or a military troop fail to do their "duty" (like a Jedi must by loyal to their "duty") just because they have a family? No, and the thought is ludicrous. Are there a specific set of circumstances where a police officer or military personnel could be tempted to do something to protect their own family over others? Sure, but EVERYONE has to face temptations and overcome them. The truly good police officers and military will still do what is right and in the best interests of society. Just like a Jedi would do. The whole downfall of the Jedi was because they tried to shelter themselves from temptation rather than trying to learn how to emotionally cope with such things and still adhere to their duty. This was certainly why Anakin failed. The Jedi were too stunted emotionally to help him because they did not have any real connection.

And there are just as many statements that support that this will remain the story of the Skywalker family...

I absolutely LOVE this. They hit the nail directly on the head.

Oh, but I think we will. After all, what would create more drama going forward than to give Luke a family, have that family be threatened or even already decimated, and then see how a true Jedi handles that temptation?

Just as our married police and military know their duty.

You mean his mentors, who tricked him into believing Darth Vader murdered his father so as to give him motivation to try to kill him? If you ask me, Yoda and OB1 needed a good slap in the face.

If Luke has not learned anything from the mistakes and the unrecognized evil of the old Jedi, I will be sorely disappointed. In many ways, Anakin was right... the Jedi were evil from a certain point of view. They just couldn't see it. Evildoers always think they are on the side of right, no matter how twisted they may seem. The whole point of George Lucas' interest in doing the ST was in exploring the grey areas between right and wrong. How bad the seemingly "good guys" can be. How there is still some inherently good motivation even in some of the worst people. My version of Luke Skywalker would seek to learn and understand all of this to be the wisest Jedi ever. Not restrict himself to a flawed "code" that led to the downfall of the galaxy.

Any version of love that is selfish is not really love at all.

Even though you were admittedly being somewhat facetious, you had some very astute observations here, @Maximus!

The choice to protect your own over the good of the many is not too much for the truly virtuous and I don't think too much for Luke. By analogy, your family is threatened with death, unless you push the button to unleash nuclear war. Do you selfishly save your own family? I certainly hope not, because it would actually result in the death of your own family anyway. The point is, you assume that people will always do what is in their own short term interest over the long term greater good. Which I believe is false. Will some? Yes, but they are either too unenlightened to recognize the logical conclusion of such a choice, or not virtuous in the first instance. But we all know what people should do when confronted with such choices.

@master_shaitan, Until your post above about taking forever to leave the house with kids, I would have guessed that you did not have children and were not married. I don't mean this in any derogatory way, whatsoever, and I have said this before, but to me there is nothing more selfless (and not selfish, since this seems to be your general rule about "attachments") than being a parent and spouse. To be successful at either one, your really have to completely let go of your own selfish desires. Just like a Jedi.

And I agree with you @nightangel, there is no better way to increase the drama for the new ST. Everyone in life faces temptations, even the most virtuous among us. What makes someone virtuous (makes someone a Jedi), is not turning a blind eye to those temptations, but facing them and overcoming them. Kind of what the whole OT is about. Post-ROTJ, Luke may have lost his way in this regard, but I think Rey will bring him back. It is like they say, you cannot know joy without sorrow, good without bad. Yin and Yang. Light Son (with a twinge of darkness) and Dark Father (with a remaining glimmer of light). The embodiment of the two sides of Darth Vader expressed separately in his grandchildren. Rey of Light and Ren of Darkness.

Again, this is where we disagree. Luke having a family is not turning his back on his "Jedi duty" any more than a police officer having a family is turning his or her back on their duty. The only suggestion we have that Luke has turned his back on his duty is by withdrawing...

Amen. Truth.

 

perfect post @Dark Toilet

 

But police officers and soldiers are "superhuman" compared to everyday citizens in our universe. How much damage can one soldier do? Ask the soldiers at Fort Hood or any other installation where a lone soldier has gone rogue and killed many. It all depends on how much power is at their disposal. Didn't some superhero's grandfather say, "With great power comes great responsibility?" He didn't say, "With great power comes great responsibility, but the more powerful you are the more prone you are to do evil." Think of the President of the United States. They have access to "the button" but how many times has it been pushed?

@master_shaitan, I have faith ... I know there is still light in you. While you may doubt yourself and might be tempted if your family was under duress, I know that you can make the right decision and be a true Jedi!

Don't bother quoting George Lucas. With all due respect to the maker, he lost his way while making the PT and failed to completely understand the genius of his creation. Most of what he has said about "attachments" was him trying to rationalize, and convince people otherwise about, all of the shortcomings in his (and Hayden Christensen's) portrayal of Anakin. Sadly, I don't put much stock in what George Lucas says (or said) any more... more notorious a flip-flopper than most politicians!

 

There is a mistake here. Jedis searching to fight bad guys is the exact thing Vader did. Except, he thought the good guys were the bad guys so in his point of view, he was killing bad guys and this is exactly what Kylo Ren does too.

Wisdom is not fighting or hunting bad guys it's about acceptation of what it is as the will of the Force.

All this attachment things are not love, it is passion. And passion has nothing to do with real love which is acceptance.

 

Whether or not you like the PT or the choices Lucas made during that period. The choices he made and continued to make in the Clone Wars series are canon and his thoughts about Luke were passed on to the story group. According to Pablo Hidalgo those ideas are an essential part of their thinking.

George's ideas matter:

 

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When Padme died, I don't think Vader cared about good or bad anymore. He had chosen his path at that point and just sort of went through the motions. As for Kylo he knows the right thing to do. JJ said that he was very close to going home with Han during their confrontation, but just felt he was to far gone to go back.

There are many different types of wisdom, but blind acceptance of anything is kind of the opposite of wisdom.
Fighting is necessary to defend ones self sometimes. Jedi didn't go looking for fights. That would be against what they were about.

Acceptance can be a part of loving someone, but that's far from all their is to it. Though my favorite short and sweet definition of love is "caring more about someone than you care about yourself."

 

Of course Vader choosed. He was hunting the jedis because he thought they were the bad guys. That they were liars and they needed to be eliminated to bring peace to the galaxy in his new empire. He choosed revenge and wanted to confront Obi Wan again. Passion was his fuel. He asked Luke to join him to bring peace to the galaxy and end the war. Anakin always wanted to change things, to model reality to his own will.

You don't love someone or something when you're a jedi, it's projecting your ego in things and once again it is passion. It is modeling the now and then to your will and not accept the will of the Force which is by defintion reality.

It isn't a coincidence if wise religious people were single and not attached to anything on Earth. Bouddha was meditating under a tree. Jesus Christ accepted his fate and stayed pacifist even with people who wanted to kill him. They were not acting against the will of the Force.

There is no wise fight.

 

George's ideas matter, but they are not the end-all-be-all anymore, and he has not exactly been the model of consistency in his views over time. Nonetheless, I fail to see where any of these tweets suggest Luke can't have a family because he is a Jedi. George's descriptions of what a Jedi is, stuff about "attachments," choices he made with respect to the Clone Wars series, etc., all describes the PT era Jedi.

It is hard to argue against the idea that the OT era Jedi had learned some lessons and were different from the PT era. George made a creative decision to make the aesthetic of the PT more pristine and idyllic to distinguish the era from the more lived in, dirty OT. I doubt these differences were limited to just the environments and extended to the Jedi themselves. I suspect further evolution of the aesthetic and philosophies of the Jedi during the ST is inevitable. In any event, the reality is, we don't know exactly what George told the story group about his vision of Luke going forward into the ST. The story group is certainly not obligated to follow that to a T anyway. Having said all that, what made Luke great was that he was different from those that came before him. I for one hope that Luke Skywalker continued to evolve as a better version of Jedi than his predecessors. Obviously, we all disagree about what that better version looks like.

I am pretty sure neither Boudha nor Jesus ever brandished a lightsaber (or anything remotely resembling a supernatural fighting power like the Jedi). Moreover, there is at least some evidence that Mary Magdalene was Jesus Christ's wife and that the Roman Catholic church has covered it all up (and branded her a wh0re) because it didn't fit within their preferred patriarchal system of gender control. (I am bound to get some negative ratings for going there... )

I certainly agree here. This is part of why Luke (at least at the end of ROTJ) was different.

 

No Maria Magdalena was a Jesus's padawan, she wasn't married to him. There is no evidence at all except in the Da Vinci code movie

 

I think its a mistake to think that the Jedi never changed. I mean they existed for who knows how long. Human nature is enough to ensure that beliefs and values will change over time, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. Thats not to say some things didnt remain the same. The force, sabers, fighting for noble causes, etc. However, things like feelings about attachment, a stuffy counsel with strict rules, things like that, seem suited to a particular era. Tried for a while, but ultimately didnt work out.

 

It's not arguing about changes, it's arguing about changes needed in the only matter for Luke to have kids. I'm sorry but it is a pointless argument.

I don't understand why this is the only very aspect of the code which is discussed and not use the dark side from time to time, not applying the rule of two, not influencing the force at his own good.

I mean ? Why only this attachment thing ? The jedi code isn't only about this but people are only discussing about that. Why in Hell, this code has to change to please Master Luke ? This is not wisdom once again to change the rule at his own benefit.

Why can't jedis be the richest people of the universe, steal banks, lie from times to times or jedi tricking chicks to have some good parties ?

There is an easy way for Luke to have a family : Leave the order.

 

It is far from being only so Luke could have a child. It's pretty apparent in the PT that the way the Jedi order was running things was not working and that (in part) is what lead to the creation of Darth Vader and ultimately the fall of the Jedi. The attachment thing is the main flaw at the time. It kept the counsel distant and made them arrogant.

 

Watch the clone wars cartoon, it is well explained why they fail and it's about fighting not about allowing Anakin to act like a guru.

Once again, there is an easy way for Luke to have a family : leave the order and make your life as you want.