SPECULATION Is Luke Rey's Father? - The Evidence For and Against

I didn't say that, did I?
I said her destiny was to find Luke, become a Jedi and likely help bring balance.
However, redeeming Ben Solo will be a big part of that.

 

So was Luke trying to redeem his father only necessary because he cared about him or because it was best for the galaxy?
You do realise, that had Luke not redeemed his father that the galaxy would've remained in darkness?
And even Rey now or later on has no reason to care about Kylo, as you put it, what if Kylo's fate is intertwined with the fate of the galaxy?
Should Rey not care about saving Ben Solo for that?

However, I think saving Ben because it is the right thing for a compassionate Jedi to do is enough - but on top of that she may feel it right to do that by Leia and Luke (with the latter probably living under a cloud because he lost Ben Solo in the first place). And then of course you're denying the strong possibility of Rey caring for Ben Solo in the future when she further understands his journey to the Dark Side.

I have to say @nightangel, I am mystified by what you actually get out of Star Wars.
It is a tale of the strengths and weaknesses of humanity and ultimately compassion and redemption.
Rey caring about Ben Solo is integral to that.

 

But you're fine with Anakin?

But you're fine with Luke loving his monstrous father?

 

So Elisabeth Fritzl should automatically love her father?
It's acceptable for a child to love their monster of a father because they are related but not ok for someone to care about someone else because they're not related?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2017 ---

I'd actually say that it shows more greatness in Rey if she loves Ben Solo than it does for Luke Skywalker who loved the idea of his father before he even met him.
True compassion is understanding empathy. It's being able to put yourself in someone else's position.
Rey can do that with Ben because she has suffered much the same issues that he feels he has - from rejection to loneliness.
If Rey can actually see past Kylo Ren and see the light in Ben Solo then that will be a sign of true compassion and true greatness.

 

But you're projecting your own views onto a fantasy story about a group of virtuous monk warriors who should have compassion for everyone.
The lesson Luke taught us in the OT wasn't that you should just forgive your family for anything no matter what they do.
It was that love conquers hate. For Rey to be the next hero, to be truly compassionate and to actually help bring balance, she is going to need to care about Ben Solo.
And it isn't about Rey loving Kylo Ren or dismissing the evil he has committed. It's about understanding and loving the good in him.
Now, no one is saying that Rey and Ren will get married and have kids. I don't see that happening at all.
I see Rey loving the person underneath the mask. I see her finding the virtue in Ben Solo. I see her empathising with his plight, his struggles and his issues. I see her being the motivating factor in his return to the light. And I see him sacrificing everything that he once believed in, for her. Finally, I see her truly overcoming the Dark Side by loving him and rejecting the hate.

That for me is what Star Wars is all about. If it isn't then it is vacuous. It's about a goodie killing baddies with no lessons to be learned.
Heck, it's worse than that. It's throwing out everything Luke discovered in the OT and telling the new generation that the only way to defeat the darkness is through war.

If this is your opinion, I can't change that. But I think you should admit that it isn't what Star Wars intends to teach us and that your view is corrupted somewhat by your own personal life experiences. I'd then however urge you to re-examine Star Wars and the lessons it teaches so that it could possibly help you see the light in the darkness...

 

Indeed. I think what Kylo Ren respects, albeit from an askew angle, is strength.
It appears that from extracts from other canon literature, that Ren despised the weakness of the New Republic. Bickering politicians, that had no clear direction. Corrupt. In it for themselves. He clearly felt something similar about his father. And of course, he felt this way about his former self. Ren believes the Dark Side provides strength and it appears that his ideology is based around the Dark Side ruling the galaxy to ensure a clear direction, a strong position. This also ties into his belief that he should rule the galaxy because of his origins and power.

This is what I think originally caught his eye about Rey. Some nobody scavenger from Jakku being a worthy adversary for the FO - Ren respects that. It intrigued him and the more he learned the more he liked. At the same time however, Rey has appealed to his compassion and this opened the door to his redemption.

Obviously, Snoke has been pushing Ren in this direction since birth and so it was an easier path for him to take. And when he learned the truth about his family (as well as the fact that he was being lied to and perhaps held back) he snapped and betrayed his family. But of course, he justifies his actions. He believes he must be strong (like Vader) and that the galaxy would be better if ruled in this way - the mess that was the New Republic after the Empire's fall as well as his own families troubles, confirmed this in his mind. It's not water tight and of course it is a wrong point of view. And I am sure Ren realises this when he feels the pull of the light. But he can just as easily dismiss it and fall back on the ideology fed to him by Snoke.

We've also got to remember that we're missing a whole heap of information of what happened during his time with Luke. Did Luke in fact use Ben in some way to get to Snoke? Did his training backfire? There are questions there that will both relate to Ben's fall as well as what is to come for Rey - in the challenges she faces both as a Jedi and in actually bringing Luke home.

My guess is that TLJ will leave Rey and Ren firmly in the grey zone. We will be unsure which way either of them is going to go. There will be strong feelings for one another but also hatred. Rey will be tempted by the Dark Side and perhaps be moving towards it, just as Ben is feeling the pull to the light as strong as ever. Luke will have to decide between family and duty and work out if he is even up to the task. Leia will be leading the Resistance against a vengeful FO where certain decisions won't be so black and white (as they were when fighting against the Empire).

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2017 ---

FAKE NEWS!

 

Artoo happened to have the rest of the map in his system from when he tapped into the Empire's archives whilst on the Death Star in ANH.
He literally downloaded everything. And the Empire had that piece of the map in the archives at that time (as Kylo Ren confirms in TFA).
Artoo wakes up because he realises that he has this information that the Resistance needs to find Luke. It is played out much better in the novel because Artoo is in the briefing room and clearly can hear what people are saying. JJ's poor explanation for Artoo waking up in the movie just confirms that it wasn't well executed.
It might be however that Luke knew Artoo had this missing piece and commanded him to wake up once Leia received the missing piece of the map. But it is highly unlikely that it has anything to do with Artoo sensing Rey's presence, in my view.

Essentially, this all means that the map to Ahch-To was tampered with long ago, probably by surviving Jedi (or member of The Church of the Force) who wished to keep the temple hidden from the Empire (as they were used as sanctuaries for any remaining Jedi - again, as described in the novel). Luke either found the missing piece himself or simply found the planet through other means and then Tekka discovered the map later on on Jakku (probably through his CotF contacts).

I have a theory that it was Kenobi who deleted Ahch-To from the Empire's archives (using his experience from the whole Kamino incident) and that this is how Luke later got wind of Ahch-To/TFJT).This could be something they use in a Kenobi standalone...

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2017 ---