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Is there a plan after all?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode IX' started by Adam812, Jan 14, 2019.

  1. Adam812

    Adam812 Rebelscum

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    https://movieweb.com/star-wars-9-kylo-ren-story-adam-driver/

    Apparently Adam Driver knows the fate of the Kylo Ren character and has known from the beginning. This is contrary to the narrative believed by many that there is no overall plan for the ST and that they are just making things up.

    I know Rian Johnson was given a lot of freedom for TLJ but if Adam Driver is telling the truth, then there is an overall plan that he had to stay in line with.
     
    #1 Adam812, Jan 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
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  2. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    There is, and always has been, a plan for this saga.
    The main points have almost always been in place* and it's the journey there is what gets tweaked by individual film makers.

    They wouldn't let JJ kill Han or Rian kill Luke without knowing BEFORE it is scripted or without a plan moving forward.


    *the unavoidable tragic early passing of Carrie Fisher will ultimately alter the story. This was unpredictable and obviously changes things.
     
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  3. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Rebel General

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    Sometimes obvious information is ignored. The obvious information is Disney made a huge investment purchasing the Star Wars franchise. It is obvious that Disney is an organization that is very careful with strategic assets. The idea that one of the most successful producers, handpicked by George Lucas, would simply then go ahead and just like directors just come up with a story with out a planned story arc is well crazy. Disney knew what they wanted the story to tell and since they not only want the stories to be successful, but for the characters, locations, etc, be available for additional stories (film, TV, comics, books, games, toys, etc.) they would have to be careful.

    I think the "Art of TFA" and "Art of TLJ" books give away a lot of this. When I got the "Art of TFA" book I was shocked at how small it was. Then I got the "Art of TLJ" book and it was a good deal larger. What I realized was that TFA era art was held back from the "Art of TFA" book because it told to much of the TLJ story, because the art overlapped. I fully expect that the "Art of Ep9" will do the same. We will see art from the very beginning that was held back to keep elements secret until Ep9 comes out.
     
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  4. Adam812

    Adam812 Rebelscum

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    So are you saying that Rian didn't take a dump on all of JJ's ideas?
     
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  5. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Force Attuned

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    I think there was a general plan. The directors do have a lot of freedom and I think if anything strayed from the original plan it was okayed by Lucasfilm.
     
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  6. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel General

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    We can only hope it was RJ job to drop poop on the franchise in TLJ only to make the entire ep9 a “I am your father moment”.
     
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  7. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I wouldn't doubt they had plans on a small scale like certain character arcs, but the major thing missing from the ST for me is the big picture arc. Hopefully Episode 9 will answer this question: Why was the ST made, and how does it make the PT/OT better? I don't hate TFA and TLJ as they are enjoyable movies (all SW is enjoyable to me on some level cause it's in my DNA), but it has to go deeper then that.

    For all of the PT's flaws (which have been debated for years), the overall big picture story DOES make the OT better. You get to see the rise of Palpatine and the politics of the galaxy, so it broadens the smaller OT world and gives you a big picture of everything. It also makes the redemption of Darth Vader more clear and why everything goes down the way it did in ROTJ as to Luke, Vader and The Emperor doing what they did.

    The ST is just there right now and feels like a soft reboot or epilogue to the 1-6 story. There is no big picture plan because i keep seeing the same plot points and themes in the ST (First Order vs Resistance, Redemption of Kylo Ren, Rey is the new chosen one, etc). So they are enjoyable movies in the context that there is more SW for fans like us. But if you take a step back and look at the big picture, there isn't much new there in the ST that really broadens the PT/OT story, the same way the PT broadened the OT story. In fairness, the way Lucas ended ROTJ, I honestly don't know if there was ever a way to continue the story and have still feel like it fits the big picture, and not just 'another' story.
     
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  8. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Nope.
    JJ didn't supply anything but mystery boxes and warm cozy comfort. He gave us incredibly familiar tropes and expectations.
    He put virtually nothing concrete on film which is why the truth of the answers in TLJ are still in flux to some...because JJ wanted every possible answer for things on the table going forward.

    The big ideas, the core concepts and themes are still in place, well what themes JJ could fit in, and everything else lines up with what JJ did too.
    It may not have been what you would have chosen, but this notion Rian pulled these answers out of the blue is laughable at best.
     
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  9. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Well it's pretty much official. Anakin Redemption 2.0

    So that means in 30 some odd years we'll c Rey on a Godforsaken rock drinking sea weed milk because Poe Dameron's son betrayed her.
     
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  10. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    If Episode 9 plays out like ROTJ in terms of redeeming Kylo Ren in roughly the same manner as Vader, I will be disappointed. In fact, I’ll feel sort of duped that this Trilogy ended up being the OT 2.0 with a few plot points subverted here and there.

    Maybe that was the plan all along? From a financial POV, you can’t argue with playing it safe like that. From a creative POV, a rehash won’t hold up well to older fans like me.
     
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  11. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi Commander

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    The idea that Disney mandated a Star Wars saga film to be released every two years without some kind of plan in place is silly. The story was planned out in broad strokes and the directors sort out the rest with the approval of Disney. The complication though with this trilogy is Fisher's death. Whatever was planned for Leia had to be reworked with whatever JJ is doing with the extra footage.

    I still believe this is why Colin Trevorrow was let go. He couldn't make it work to Disney's satisfaction.
     
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  12. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Rebel General

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    JJ introduced the mysteries that TLJ and EP9 would solve. That is the purpose of the 1st film of a trilogy. The debate is if the answers to the mysteries were planned or were they left to the creators of TLJ and EP9. I find it highly doubtful that the answers for a multi-billion dollar franchise wouldnt have been pre-planned.
     
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  13. Maximus

    Maximus Jedi General

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    whilst i have voiced my opinion several times in favor of believing that LF & Disney have had a grand plan that they have been following for this trilogy.. i do not think that Adam Driver is talking about knowing the fate of his character from the start.

    i think he is simply saying that he always knew when this job would finish.. as opposed to 'Girls' which he did not know when that would end.

    i dunno.. maybe i've mis-read it.
     
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  14. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    yes but JJ made EVERYTHING a mystery box and offered little to no concrete mythology for the new saga.
    The lightsaber? Mystery box.
    Han's relation to Rey? Mystery box.
    Rey's relation to Luke? Mystery box.
    Snoke? Mystery box.
    Luke? Mystery box.
    Rey's parents? Mystery box.

    I'm not saying there shouldn't have been any mystery boxes, but he just should have dialed back. Pick one or two big mysteries. He likely knew the lightsaber was always unimportant long run, but still mystery boxed the hell out of it. Now you have people still angry over it.
    The big key is, he put enough in to give each mystery box an alternate out. Which is fine and it drives discussions but it also gives nothing concrete. So people go bananas with theories and get attached to them and when they don't happen....
     
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  15. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    JJ is the King of Mystery boxes that usually aren't answered. I remember a co-worker warning me about JJ when I told him he was writing and directing the new SW movie back in 2013. He said, "Get ready for lens flares and mystery boxes that will never be answered." He watched Lost (I have never seen it) and said he would never trust JJ ever again as he got burned with that show after it had such a great premise.
     
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  16. VOODOO

    VOODOO Rebelscum

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    If there was a plan it was a very loose/general one.
     
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  17. Trevor

    Trevor Protector of the Jedi
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    There was always a plan. Before this trilogy ever got NEAR production, I have little doubt that a general outline was drawn up of the entire arc as one large story, then broken up into a trilogy.

    Again, there was always a plan.
     
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  18. Thretosix

    Thretosix Rebelscum

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    I think of it as a bunch of things that have to be in place for the final ST episode the way Kathleen Kennedy has explained before we even saw TFA. Per Kathleen, the Skywalker Saga is about family and love. How they get to that place for the finale is really up to the director, with some oversight of course, because Disney.
     
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  19. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    How can you say that when they discarded Lucas stories, and JJ and Kasdan pretty much started from scratch (as he said they walked around together in NY coming up with ideas for Episode 7). Hence we get the OT 2.0 (as I described in an earlier post)

    -Snoke = Emperor
    -Rey = Luke
    -Kylo Ren = Vader
    -Luke = Yoda
    -The First Order = The Empire
    -The Resistance = The Rebellion
    -Starkiller Base - Death Star

    Lucas even says to Charlie Rose that they wanted to make movies for the fans (which is EXACTLY what TFA was). So I think the only plan they had was to make the new Trilogy as close to the OT in terms of broad strokes, but throw in a few things that feel different, and they won't catch on that it's a reboot.
     
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  20. Trevor

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    Just because they discarded GL's story treatment's, doesn't mean that they didn't have an outline of their own....I certainly would've had a plan, and it seems AWFULLY foolish of a multi-billion dollar studio to just one day decide; "Hey, let's continue making the SW saga just off-the-cuff by making it up as we go along...no plan...yeah, that's a good idea!"

    I just cannot even consider for a moment that they didn't have at least a rough outline for the trilogy as a whole. Sure, as each movie progressed, I can see the the incidental details being drawn in, but I have ZERO doubt that at least a rough draft of the trilogy existed before anything got started.
     
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