JJ ABRAMS Misled fans for NO reason

I agree.
Hopefully Disney/Lucasfilm will keep him from doing that.

And in any case, at least its not someone like M. Night Shyamalan making Episode 9. LOL.

 

Eh the drastic tonal shift should signify that things are not "normal" right now.

 

Rian's Rey Nobody was foreshadowed multiple times in TFA. "I'm no one." "They aren't coming back" (as in no longer relevant to her future). "Just a girl." "This girl"

Her desperation for connection; Han , Luke, now Kylo. She is seeking connection belonging. But the belonging is not behind its ahead. Luke is no longer the last Jedi.

 

How does Kylo know anything abut Rey's parentage? How do we know he isn't lying to manipulate her?

 

Your reasoning is the exact basis for why I despise mystery box storytelling. By making that aspect a mystery, yeah it builds hype, but those expectations can be a big double-edged sword. Namely, in that because people are going to be so married to a concept or theory that when the actual chain of events/ resolution is revealed it better bet clear.

Otherwise, people will flip. In the case of Rey, JJ I honestly believed had really no idea who Rey was, only that she had belonged to someone important. RJ clearly took that and tried to twist this idea into a cool aspect. This being that Rey's parents are normal.

While I love that idea, in my view the reason why I cannot embrace it is that simply put A) Rey's actual character development in the movie, while better, was paper thin and B) it offered no explanation of her powers. Much as I wasn't a fan of Rey being a Skywalker or Solo, at the very least that lineage offered an explaination as to why she was so powerful. An overall convenient one that doesn't really fix her show of Force powers(like the mind trick). BUT a simple one.


Much as I enjoyed TLJ had the movie been focused on identity as a theme with Rey trying to figure out her folks and understand her Force powers, in relation while ultimately being denied the truth and becoming more and more aggravated, then cool.

Basically, think Kung Fu Panda 2 with Po's arc being that(SPOILER ALERT FOR THE MOVIE) where Po keeps getting strange dreams about his folks and wants answers. Why couldn't Rey have this? Make that her driving motivation going forward and her asking Kylo for answers.

As for the twist instead of just learning they were Scavengers why couldn't Kylo said: "Your folks are scavengers who adopted you and then left you behind/ and died on the planet. etc."

This in my view could have been more satisfying. You are giving a piece of the mystery, but also withholding information. So when say Rey in Episode Nine seeks out her parents' identity you could toss in an explanation that maybe she was a part of a line of strong force Sensitives, like the Skywalkers. Think Nomi Sunrider. Heck, maybe Luke on Ach-too could have described the founder of the First Jedi and namedropped them. And Episode Nine revealed Rey's actually ancestry.

Either way, I'm NOT against Rey being normal. Far from it. But even I will admit; RJ didn't handle the twist in that it came as an almost afterthought.

 

Because the connection that she and Ben had involved lots of knowledge about each other. He knows because he sees it in Rey's memories. Maz already pointed out that deep down she knows they are not comung back.

 

Or more importantly, how do we know those were Rey's biological parents?

 

I personally didn’t find the revelation that bothersome. To be honest, I liked the way Rey Random was done, but I can understand your point of view.

I find it interesting that people have so huge issues with Rey’s connection to the Force. To me, being Force-sensitive was never about being part of a certain bloodline. Rather, the Force manifests itself in every possible way, which means that anyone can have the power.

Oh, and to actually address title of this thread: I rather think we fans misled ourselves — not J.J. Abrams.

 

Why do people keep repeating this? No one ever thought "being Force-sensitive was about being part of a certain bloodline"
The issue some of us have is someone being extremely force sensitive like Rey and not being special because then you are ignoring all the development of Anakin's origins in the prequels, why make a point that he was born from the force itself and that he is "even more force sensitive" than master Yoda if anyone can be like that?

 

It's probably thanks to Anakin's actions in Episodes I - VI that the new generation Force sensitives are becoming more like that. Look no further than broom boy at the end of the film.

 

I always thought that particular storyline from Lucas was rather...idiotic, but he did what he did, so there’s no changing it.

But just as if someone can accept an immaculate conception, I can accept idea of The Force being a living being that evolves and develops; and to address the rising Dark Side, manifests itself in another person. In this case, Rey.

I don’t see why there needs to be a fully open explanation to her skills. Geniuses are born everyday all around the world to alll kinds of parents. Why being exceptionally talented needs to require a special explanation -- a mystical origin story that somehow differentiates our hero from everyone else and sets him/her apart?

That narrative had been told myriad times already. I rather see/read/hear a story of a nobody realizing how anyone can be somebody. Even she/he (read: nobody).

 

Considering that the immaculate conception literally has nothing to do with the rest of the saga or its themes, it shouldn't be taken seriously.

It's one thing to be talented. It's another thing entirely to refine that potential which makes the whole moral aspect of the sequel trilogy ridiculous when it rejects lineage determining power and success but also appears to care little for any ideas like hard work and preparation when it comes to its protagonist. Especially when Ben Solo, the villain, worked harder to accomplish his goals while Rey coasts by on her natural affinity and little else, losing nothing in the process.

 

That is a very good explanation but I don't quite agree with it.
For me at least it's a matter of consistency, I don't see the force as something that can do whatever it wants without any kind of rules, there must have been a reason for Anakin's immaculate conception, certain rules the force had to follow, if the force could just imbue anyone with such a force connection why go to all that trouble? I just don't buy that the force evolves.
Also I don't see the difference in regards to nobody/anyone, both Rey and Anakin had humble origins, one was gifted before birth, the other after birth. This is not the story of an ordinary jedi that surpasses others due to hard work and dedication, quite the opposite actually.

 

Yeah, but it's the pitfalls and trials one experiences on the path to becoming somebody that counts.

 

I HAVE A PLAN TO FIX THIS WHILE MAINTAINING RIAN JOHNSONS VISION

Snoke is the prime jedi, his mind and body twisted and ruined his servitude of the original dark side user...a fallen whill of limitless power, so great he can fly, force project himself without effort, transport, consume the life force of beings, manipulate matter as well as telepathically communicate.

Snoke was taught many things by this dark entity. Becoming the first jedi as well as the first sith.

This fallen whill is known simply as lord shai-tan...the incarnation of the dark side.


A dark entity of immense power, who helped create the original sith with the help of his high priest...the fallen snoke.


Snoke helped his master create the original sith, who were worshipers of this dark side entity and seeked power for the glory of this dark side being.


Snoke was his loyal servant and together using their sith followers went to war with the jedi, but after their defeat they remained in the shadows. One day the Republic would be attacked by the mandalorians. This would lead of course to the fall (or sacrifice) of revan who not only joined the dark side to fight a greater evil both within the Republic(who were profiting off of the war by selling weapons to both sides). But becoming a sith to bring down snoke and shai-tan.


Revan created new sith doctrines that would for the philosophical underpinnings of the modern sith lords. Putting emphasis on objectivism, friedrich nietzsche philosophy.


Basically putting emphasis on individuality and the belief in a secular sith order that sees the force as something to be controlled and dominated...whereas snoke respects the force and view dark side teachings as merely carrying out the dark sides will. Snoke is a high priest whereas revan is the undermench.


Eventually the KOTOR storyline happens in similar (but immensely different ways).


5 OLD REPUBLIC films


Movie 1: revan begins the movie with the lie that the jedi code is the best path to life and basically slowly loses his faith in the jedi and is slowly darkened into the revan we know and love. Ending the film with the battle of mandalore(instead of malachor mandalore becomes the planet that revan ruins to end the war, which is why it is so dead looking in rebels, it took mandalore 4000 years to fix revans damage and it still isn't enough) and revan becoming Darth revan to replace the Republic with something that will protect the galaxy from a ancient threat in the unknown regions. He also learns that the rich elites of the Republic were the ones who funded the mandalorians and he is disgusted that the rich used the war to weaken the Republic so that the masses can be desperate. Using their endless wealth they market "populist politicians" that follow their rich donors. He also learns that the jedi also knew about this and that SOME(not most) are conspiring with the rich to impose their religious views on a secular republic. Revan becomes a social justice warrior.


Becoming a crusader...who believes sees evil everywhere except within.


Movie 2: revan begins with the fatal flaw of being power hungry as he destroys the Republic and builds the empire in its place. Revan slowly drives away friends and like a Shakespeare character driven drama slowly descends into darker territory. Revan than drives away his best friend Malak. Who would later betray him at the end of the film and maybe with the help of 2 sith strip revan of much of his power and revan escapes into exile.

Revan ends the film realizing that the sith code and materialism has ruined his life. He escapes to the outer rim(revan being mind wiped won't work in screenwriting).

Movie 3: Logan meets KOTOR 1 storyline, revan is a drifter in the outer rim waiting to die until he is called into action by news that his old friend bastilla is being hunted. He goes to taris and finds out the truth...that bastilla is traveling with their son whom he never knew existed and conceived before the Mandalorian wars. He slowly regains his will to live along with his force powers as he and his child slowly form a bond along with all his companions.


NUKOTOR 1 (movie 3) is a metaphor for what it means to allow yourself to care for people in the face of devastating loss. What it means to find a family again. What it means to take another person’s hand in the face of all that pain. What it takes to go from being a loser, being another victim of an unfair world, to being a fully realized human being. He also must come to peace and come to terms with failure.

The force storyline could be revan reconciling the light and dark sides of the force(Carl Jung and shadow integration being the philosophy). Becoming a fully realized force user who is master of both the light and the dark(or the shadow). Becoming more powerful than any jedi or sith.


Movie 4: a lose adaptation of KOTOR 2 as well a thematic continuation of the loss theme of the previous movie and applying to exile. revan is not present here.


Revan has disappeared to face shai-tan in the unknown regions and exile and everyone else must go out and find him in the end... (the story is intact for the most part and kreia is played by the same actress who played kreia in the games).


Kreia is right about revan...but is largely not the one who started the dark wars. One of my biggest gripes though is that I do not buy that a secret empire remains undetected. So the mysterious threat is truly something worse. Shai tan is more powerful than any sith and and is above above all sith, kind of like a god. Snoke being his high priest.

What if this dark threat was some kind of sauron figure.
The mysterious dark being is found by malaks sith remnant in the Beyond. Like Sauron and Voldemort - if he ever reaches full power, breaks through from the Beyond into the galaxy itself he will be unstoppable and darkness will rule forever

But shaitan knows revan has the power to stop him. He knows how Revan defeated the Sith and he will not make the same mistake...

So he helps sion, nihilus and kreia take out the Jedi order.

The galaxy is crippled by the Jedi civil war and the death of the Jedi is met with glee.

The academy is wiped out before revan can save them.

Revans son is captured by shaitan and is brainwashed into the ultimate sith...rivaling revan himself.

Either way, revan finds the Jedi killed and must face his inner demons to stop the being that he has prepared years for.

Sensing some great ancient evil is returned, Revan takes off to find the threat where he discovers it's true form and does battle with it.

In a devastating battle (maybe think Gandalf vs the Balrog if the Balrog is Sauron lol), revan barely escapes with his life but wounds the entity in the process, leaving him wounded and vulnerable.

He sends countless sith assassin's and revan must flee.

Using the Force, revan must find a way to imprison the entity within the beyond.

Revan is now the only thing standing between entity and the galaxy. He must look for a way to stop him. the entity himself is desperate to leave because while he is powerful enough to control and send forth his armies he will die if he remains in the beyond. So entity is desperate to escape and revan is forced to dissappear as his son hunuts him down.

The final battle between revan and the dark entity will be set up






Movie 5: revan, the republic, exile, revan sith empire, and the remaining jedi all must work together. Shaitan has sent forth his followers and starforge armies to attack both the sith empire and the Republic. The sith and the jedi work together to stop shai tan.


Revan goes to moraband to battle his son who is influenced by shai tan and snoke...the fight is meant to force one to kill the other. Revan killing his own son would cause revan to lose balance, while the son killing revan would complete the sons training. Shai-tan and snoke watch as the jedi and revans new sith battle the followers of shai-tan and snoke.


But revan snaps the kid out of it and together they imprison the entity.


Imprisoning it in a tomb...revan and his son leave


Revan finally living a normal life and leaving with his family and friends.


4000 years later the entity would break out of his prison thanks to the destruction of alderaan...and would call out to Palpatine and snoke. Palpatine sensed this dark side entity in the unknown regions and in case of his death decided to create a cult to unleash shai-tan.


Snoke is also imprisoned and escapes when alderaan is destroyed due to the immense dark side energy of the planets destruction.



BUT WHO IS SHAI-TAN!!!



Shai tan was the youngest and most beautiful and loving whills, as well as the most favored of them all. He was always curious and was envied by some of his brothers. But one day he had a dream that he was king of the galaxy. Sha tan tells everyone and many whills angered at Shai tan getting all the attention attack him and beat him up and throw him to the mortal realm. He was sad and alone, and wondered the galaxy before coming across the original prime jedi on ach-to. He was angry and bitter and using his exceptional force powers telepathically taught the dark side to his greatest student snoke. His followers would leave the planet and forming the sith. The sith empire helps him gain enough dark side power to return to his realm and with great anger he was able to kill all of his brothers including those who were not involved. He was finally defeated by the bendu. His goal of killing every whill succeeding. But he was beaten so bad that he would never dare to go to the force realm again. He is limited by time though, his body was so damaged that his lost his ability to maintain his immortality without absorbing other people.


He would later be defeated by revan, snoke after waking up deciding to take over the galaxy so that he can prepare the way of his master.


As well as add a new addition to the shai-tan fan club. His goal was not just to kill luke, but use the combined force essence of Rey and kylo to revive his master from a death like sleep.



But ren betrayed him.


But shai-tan had a new cult, the acolytes of beyond, whom have accumulated everything they need. Using the force essence of thousands of children(why the inquisitors were stealing force sensitive children). Palpatine formed this cult to bring shai-tan back.

The fourth trilogy dealing with shai-tan coming out of the shadows again.


Now shai-tan becomes the big bad of star wars.


His goal is to not take over the galaxy but to regain his immortality.


He is the tyrant god king, a dark Jesus.


Shai tan is beautiful, charming, and kind of petty and insecure. His fear of death is the focal point of his character arc as well as his need for a family.


He feels alone and isolated, in many ways he is like the ultimate puppeteer but with the emotional depth of kylo and anakin. he also has immense powers


150 years after episode 9

The fourth trilogy will be centered on 2 Skywalker twins(from Rey and Ben bloodline) whom are the reincarnation of the son and daughter from mortis. A dark side boy and a light side girl. David and Emma whom are destined to confront him. the twins father being kyle, wants to keep them safe from all this force nonsense but is forced on multiple occasions to coonfront his past and make peace with it.


Only together can these 2 become the balance and become shai-tan's "undoing". As the rest of the galaxy is forced in a cold war between 2 oppressive superpowers, the theocratic republic runned by a order of force users with lots of money to bribe politicians. These force sensitives rule the galaxy thanks to bribes as well the church of the force quadrillion of followers who vote for people who support them. The force users are part of the powerful order known as the magistrium. Whom are scared of shaitan returning and viewing the galaxy as being best governed by force sensitives. Opposite is the second imperium which is the first order new successor state. Regained much of its glory.


Together david and emma will be shaitans undoing, Which doesn't mean what they think.


Setting up a final trilogy that fits into everything



Thoughts?

 

She's talking to Kylo. It's all part of the conversation she's having with him when they touch hands.

 

JJ's mystery box is a big scam and incredible dishonest. I can't believe people still put up with him. Here's how this simple scam works. Build mystery around an unknown element (closed box) which preys on curiosity in human nature. The curiosity will drive people to buy the closed box just to relieve this feeling. By the time you excitedly get to look in the box and find out it's empty......well at this point who cares you have already paid for the box. Sucker!!!

 

I completely agree I fell for it in Lost and then again with The Leftovers, I consider JJ and his buddy Lindelof as scam writers.

 

Yes, great examples. When all is said and done with the ST it will be add to the list of JJ scam box ripoffs. People will wake up to this bull sooner or later. It's already happening, 2017 has been one of the worst years for hollywood in a long time.

 

last jedi was better than anything lucas could come up with