SPECULATION Knights of Ren

Totally like The Knights Templar

 

Is it possible that the Knights of Ren predate the Jedi and the Sith? Aftermath seems to suggest that a faction of retreating Imperialists will venture out into Unknown Space, in search of the source of the dark side. Presumably, this is where they encounter the Knights of Ren, on some undiscovered/forgotten world. If the Knights are this far removed from the galaxy we know, perhaps they don't even call the source of their power "The Force". Perhaps in their language it is called "Ren", like some darker space wizard version of "Zen" (similar to Yoda's name being derived from the Sanskrit word "yodha"). We've heard Snoke and Kylo refer to The Force, but we haven't yet heard them actually call it that. Does anyone know anything in the current canon that would negate those possibilities?

 

Love this idea! Kylo could have a REN GARDEN!

 

I really, really hope these Knights of Ren aren't just Sith in all but name. That's why I loved Revanite's theory about them being bilateral Force users, grey area warriors that seek balance, or at least what they perceive to be balance. In that vein, they can still be bad guys, but their motivations are much more nuanced - they believe that they are doing good. If they're just a narrative rehash of the Sith with a new name slapped on them, I'm not gonna lie (preparing myself for the downvotes), I'll be disappointed.

 

I have a pretty out-there suggestion of what the purpose of the Knights of Ren might be, but I'll start off with what I think we definitely do know about the First Order:

No doubt, the First Order is the Nazi Party in Argentina. And "Argentina" is the nebula into which they retreat, as described by Teen Goat:

To me, the Knights of Ren almost have to be that faction of the retreating-to-Argentina-Nazi party that continued the obsession of the occult, or Force if you will.

I agree, the Knights of Ren should be fairly grey, thinking that what they are doing is for the greater good of the galaxy, as twisted as it may be.

So now for my crazy speculation: Stay with me from here, as I go along on a different twist on the rumored plots, relating them somewhat to Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code.

In addition to finding artifacts of the Force, the retreating Nazi/Imperials tasked with the pursuit of the occult (called the Knights of Ren, meaning the Knights of Rebirth) begin to seek out what is Dan Brown's conception of the Holy Grail, meaning the alleged Force users descended from their martyred savior. If the Knights of Ren are revering Darth Vader as the living God, immaculately conceived Son of the Dark Side itself, they would perhaps want to preserve his image as the "perfect" dark sider. However, it is rumored that the "perfect one" was sacrificed by his own son, which certainly takes away from the image they want to uphold, just as the story of Mary Magdalene does for Jesus Christ. So, the Knights of Ren seek to extinguish that bloodline, by killing the last of the Jedi, Luke Skywalker. Keep in mind, the dirty family secret that the galaxy at large does not know: Luke and Leia are the children of Darth Vader, similar to the rumored Anti-Christ that will claim to be descended from Jesus himself. So, the purpose of the Knights of Ren could be to preserve their martyred savior's image by killing all descendants from him, the remaining Skywalkers.

The other thought I have on this is that the objective of the Knights of Ren could actually be the polar opposite, to protect the savior's blood line, which is what Dan Brown wrote as the purpose of the Knights Templar. This could lead to the rumored abduction of Kylo Ren and even attempted conversion of Rey. In this concept, the Knights of Ren still see Luke Skywalker as one who must be killed, as the bloodline continues through Kylo Ren and Rey.

But I like the extinguish-the-bloodline at all costs version better. In that case, what Kylo Ren doesn't know (and presumably the other Knights of Ren either) is that Luke Skywalker is not the last of the Skywalkers. Kylo Ren himself (and maybe Rey) is descended from the savior Darth Vader. This would create unbelievable conflict for him with everyone. He has been bred to extinguish the bloodline, and in particular the one who sacrificed his revered martyr. So he still wants to kill Luke Skywalker. But now he also wants to kill the leader of the Knights of Ren, presumably Snoke, because he was deceived all these years. Also, he discovers that the Darth Vader throne is his for the taking since he is a true "heir." This makes Luke Skywalker the Anti-Vader and Kylo Ren the second coming of Vader. Kind of ends on a down note, but perhaps there is another that becomes the real eternal savior of the galaxy in the end. Hmmm....

I have always been very cold to the idea of Star Wars being just another retelling of biblical stories and prophecy. For me, however, this would be an interesting way to approach it in-reverse. Instead of a "Christ to Anti-Christ to Second Coming of Christ" story, it becomes an evil version of the same. The Sith in the PT are the Israelites of the Old Testament, the OT is the life and times of the savior in the New Testament, and the ST kind of becomes the biblical Revelations, but all of it for the Dark Side. Anyway, I know it is kind of out there, but I can't help but see the potential biblical parallels, just in reverse.

 

Winter is coming

 

Yes it seems so.

 

Okay... so hear me out. During the time of the Galactic empire, the fact that Darth Vader and PAlpatine were sith was known to very few. They never made it public, seemingly because the historical baggage of the sith made it so they would likely not be accepted...

What if there is a similiar situation with the Knights of Ren... what if this is only what they call themselves to avoid people knowing that they are Sith.

Sith posing as heroic knights of the First Order...

Just a thought.

 

I just think the Knights are a sect of dark side users that have risen because it's convenient now that the sith are gone.

 

It's just another faction brought in to still bring fear to the galaxy, but BTS not as powerful without Kylo & Snoke.

 

Probably...

 

Just another faction of Force users imo. I hope they are shown to be more righteous crusaders in their minds rather than conquering megalomaniacs as with the Sith.

 

I have troubles with the Inquisitors and other force users being retcomnned into the main Saga - how about this one.

"The Force runs strong in my family, my uncles has it, my Grandfather had it, I must have it too"

Can someone who believes themself to be 'Force sensitive' teach themselves the ways of the Force - but finding ancient books and Holocrons etc

Imagine Han Jnr, parents separated, mother too busy with work, Dad a bit of a dead beat galavanting around the galaxy on crazy schemes that never quite work out, Uncle Luke is missing, and was never the great hero everyone had hoped for. Han Jrn grows up an angry young man and becomes obsessed with the Dark Side and Grandpa Vader, the way a wayward kid might turn to drugs or satanism today. He uses wealth and influence to collect and find ancient force materials to teach himself and founds a group of likeminded people, the Knights of Ren. It's all 'secret' thus he wears his own faux 'Vader' mask to protect his double Jekyl and Hyde identity and a secret name Kylo Ren. (and thus the apparent scenes of maskless Adam Driver at the resistance base). And it's all rather amateur thus his not-so-perfect homemade LightSaber.

Meanwhile, MSW has described a scene involving Maz and the heroes where they use a kind of 'seance' to sense Luke's backstory through his (and Anakin's) old LightSaber. If this skill becomes canon then one of the reasons that Kylo and his friends are hunting Sith relics, is to use this power to reconnect with long dead Sith and learn their lost knowledge. The relic hunting becomes more than a hobby but a real path to reinventing the Sith. For example with Anakin's Lightsaber they could 'see' both Anakin being trained by ObiWan and by Palpatine. It's "pay dirt" which would explain their obsession with getting it.

"There has been an awakening - have you felt it?"
Their purpose is to re-awaken the Dark Side - thus giving meaning to the title.

Unless of course some kind of Ying and Yang mean the Force needs both sides "The Dark side and the Light" and thus the absence of the Dark Side has caused the Force as a whole to become weaker - and thus Luke's failure to defend his Jedi Academy. The Knights of Ren rediscovering the Dark Side cause the Force as a whole to Reawaken.

 

Maybe the first Sith was corrupted by Snoke or another member of Snoke's species or organization. Now that the Sith are gone, Snoke is trying again, but this time he's creating an order who's members are loyal to each other so that they don't get destroyed by infighting like the Sith did.

 

Snoke is playing the even longer con

 

This just stuck me.

One of the things that GL once thought was that Luke would do after 'winning' was put on Vader's mask and rule the galaxy. Kinda a beware when you fight the monster you become the monster. What if Luke starts training Jedi but everything gets away from him. His first round of students believe that the must rule. Democracy is to slow, to susceptible to corruption and manipulation by forces like Sheeve. So they reject the role of the Jedi as peaceful protectors and become what they hope to begin as "benevolent" masters who over course succumb to the lust of power and control. Afterall the Darkside is kinda like drinking from the firehose. So the Knights of Ren begin with good motives.

This might be the reason Luke retreats from the things. His life goal to rebuild the Jedi, in essence gave rise to a new Darkside order. Think of it as the Sith who are loyal to each other and a cause rather than 2 jerks hoping to become all powerful even at the expense of each other.

 

I like this. I can very well see The Knights of Ren being Lukes failed attempt to kickstart a new Jedi Order. I also think that Snoke will have some part in making some of the Jedi in this new order "see differently" through some force mind stuff. This would cause some kind of civil war between the Jedi with the Jedi losing the battle and the victors later calling themselves The Knights of Ren dedicating themselves to the mysterious person Snoke who only talks to them in their head. I don't have a good speculation as to why they are with the First Order or why they are trying to find the saber though but what if the Resistance are also looking for the sabre because they believe it will help them find Luke, who they think is the leader of The Knights of Ren? What if after he went hiding he told no one and just left do to shame of failing making everyone else think he is responsible? Kind of out there I know but I do think it would be interesting if JJ made the audience feel that Luke went dark for over half the movie, probably until they get to the flashback.

 

Wow...

 

Totally agree

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2015, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2015 ---

Sadly this is what I fear too. So many of the users on this forum have posed very well thought out and intricately detailed histories and motivations for the Knights of Ren. And sadly I think the ideas here will be much more deep and enriching then what will actually be shown on the big screen. They will be Sith in all but name and have a slight tweak here or there.