Luke gets smashed by the KOR

"To the point that he nearly allows the Resistance to be destroyed by the Starkiller Base? To the point where Han Solo, is best friend, is killed? To the point where 2 potential Jedi heroes who are maybe even related to him face off against Kylo Ren alone? If he's holding back to save the resistance at what point does he realise that they need him?!"

Good point, but like I said, he could be helping through the Force, which could be of more use than him jumping in with a saber and exposing himself to the FO who would turn all their power against him. I think there is more to the situation, but I don't think it is Luke being captive. You may be right that he is somehow wounded, though.

"Why can't he work independently of them, seeking out Snoke himself and taking him out?"

Because Snoke is heavily guarded, possibly by other Force users, and he is possibly more powerful than Luke can handle on his own. Even you said you don't want Luke to be a demi-god.

"No, instead he's sitting in a hut doing nothing while his friends die and the galaxy comes close to being taken over by the Dark Side again."

I never said he is doing nothing. I said he is using the Force. He might be the one to guide the saber to Jakku.

"7 warriors including Kylo could take him down. I'd buy that. You don't want invincible heroes. It's boring."

7 warriors, only one using a saber, can take him and his students down at his own academy, yet you want him to rush into battle on their own base? How is this better than a strategic retreat while trusting in the Force and possibly using it at a distance?

"Kenobi and Yoda said they were too old and of course Luke had a better chance than them for a number of reasons."

Kenobi wasn't old when they went into exile, and Yoda was pretty spry for his age, yet they ran from one Force user (they thought Vader was dead). They knew they couldn't handle Palpatine at this point, and Luke is in a similar situation.

"But Luke should still be pretty powerful now. And like I say, by all means wait until the time is right to attack - but we see in TFA that he is missing and a lot of sh** is going down. Yet he is a no show."

We don't know what condition Luke is in. He is the same age as Obi-Wan was in ANH. And again, he could be turning the tide using the Force.

"I think the better reason for a Luke no show is that he is in captivity. His powers are diminished. And now the new hero, Rey, must find him, rescue him and learn the ways of the Force so she can save the galaxy."

So Rey has to rescue a dude who is weak enough to be captured so she can learn from him how to be stronger? Sounds like she is stronger than him already. Your theory isn't really fixing the problems.

 

Thank you for the honest and friendly answer

 

"Bit far fetched, even for Star Wars though, isn't it? What could he actually be doing with the Force? I dunno, seems like a cop-out in trying to explain why he is in self imposed exile instead of helping out."

I don't think so. Yoda is able to contact Kanan and Ezra in Rebels and "watched" Luke from a long distance, Luke was able to call on Leia while hanging upside down from Cloud City, and Plagueis somehow influenced the Force to create life (whether he directly did it or the Force reacted to him). I don't think it is far fetched that Luke has mastered the Force in a way that he could be subtly guiding Rey through her journey, blocking or clouding Kylo and Snoke, or even strategizing with Leia. I believe Rey has already received training at a younger age (I'm still holding on to the Force mind wipe theory) and just needs to unlock that power again.

 

We will have to agree to disagree on that one then. Canon is Canon to me. I also edited my last post by the way.

 

Yes.

As for Skywalker and the idea that he would go into self-imposed exile, it just doesn't fit the character. At all. The first to thinking about saving the Princess, his willingness to stop training on Dagobah and his desire to face Vader on Endor.... all demonstrate that he is a man of action. Dude threw away his lightsaber and faced Palpatine. He isn't Kenobi hiding from the Empire on Tatooine, he is Luke kriffing Skywalker, Jedi Knight and hero of the galaxy. No. Luke would never run and hide. He would stand and face the twenty-seven Sith-wannabe's who make up the Knights of Plag, er.... Ren.

The Luke I know, he would go down swinging.

 

And he would die and the Jedi would be no more. All hail Lord Snoke! Long live the Dark Side!

Luke would have been killed if Vader had wanted him dead in TESB. And Luke had to throw down his saber and put his faith in his father, or give in to his hate and join the Dark Side. This isn't the same situation and he is not the same Luke. People change. No one is suggesting he is a coward. He is just more thoughtful about what he does.

 

If the Knights of Ren wanted him captured and not dead, then Skywalker will be in chains...

Luke didn't become a force-wussy after defeating his Father and the Emperor.

 

Well, when considering why Luke might not be around let me suggest a hypothesis. Bear in mind I'm not saying I think this, but just, for those going "I can't see why Luke wouldn't save so-and-so if he's so powerful"

Maybe Luke himself is on a mission with far greater importance to the galaxy, so he simply can't abandon where he is, what he is doing, until his mission is accomplished, and THEN he can turn his attention to what's happening with Han and Rey etc. But to do so beforehand would jeopardize the fate of the galaxy. So Luke puts it in the hands of his friends to "hold down the fort" until he gets back.

So, there you see a plausible reason why Luke the paragon-Jedi can't just simply drop what he's doing and run to anyone's aid at any time. This is off the top of my head, and JJ has had a lot longer to come up with making everything jibe. Again, not saying Luke must be this paragon of Jedi, but he can be that, and still have a reason for not involving himself in the story of the new heroes- YET.

Also, Luke being off-the-charts powerful doesn't mean we don't need new heroes. Perhaps Luke is planning on moving upward at some point and wants to pass the saber to the next generation of Jedi. Plausible. Also the Matrix, Avengers, Superman, etc. all show that god-like characters aren't boring unless the writer is boring.

 

I don't think that Luke is wounded or that his powers are diminished.

I think he's *psychologically* wounded perhaps.
His powers are probably greater than ever.

Yoda admonished him to sacrifice Han and Leia if "you honor what they fight for." Yoda was not being sarcastic when he said this; he meant it. He literally told Luke that it would be better for the galaxy if he remained secluded on Dagobah and continue training while Han and Leia die.

Luke has become Yoda. He's taken that lesson to heart.
He's secluded himself on [skellig michael] and is willing to allow his friends to die because he believes (rightly or wrongly) that his presence would make things worse. I suspect he fears his own power (as mentioned in early rumors), he sees himself as a failure...and most of all, he doesn't want his power and knowledge to end up in Kylo/Snoke's hands.

I suspect we'll see Rey bitter and angry about it, doubting Luke's wisdom (the way that Luke doubted Yoda's wisdom in ESB)... Be interesting to see how they interact in Ep 8.

 

Luke gets smashed? This is what I think of...

 

One at a time.

Firstly, this doesn't necessarily mean that Luke is not there for the final battle when everything is about to be destroyed. Indeed, it has been strongly suggested by one of the writers on this website that Luke intervenes in the duel between Kylo and Rey + Finn. It's entirely possible that he could sense through the Force what would happen- especially if it involved Rey, who is the next one and almost certainly related to him by blood, and we know how the Skywalkers are about sensing each other- and then shows up when it gets real.

Secondly, we DO know he is willing to leave his friends if a) there is a higher purpose, and/or b) it is in their interests. He left them for a) in TESB to further his Jedi training with Yoda. He knew this with the knowledge he may never see Han again, for one, as he was under the impressioin that he's going off to pay back Jabba and go back to his thing. And he knew there was a risk that Leia could be captured or killed in the escape. Then, in ROTJ, he left them for a) to go back to Degobah for a time, and for a) and b) to go off to face Vader. If there is some higher calling he must take up, or if he feels he has become a danger after his Padawans were killed if for no other reason than that he is the main target of what one could effectively call an intergalactic dark side terrorist network with armies and ships and superweapons at their disposal, perhaps Luke thinks it's best to get away, meditate, and plan for a while. Just like Jedi before him.

On the note of him being willing to leave his friends, remember; Luke is not the bratty moisture farmer anymore. He is a seasoned, dedicated Jedi Master by this point. I think it's safe to say he has changed a lot over the years, and Mark Hamill was very keen to put that out in the EW article. I think he reached a level of spiritual growth as a Jedi that Anakin never did. Anakin's main demon was that he was unable to let go of attachments to the people he loved, as Yoda instructed him. This drove him to be unwilling to accept the possibility that his power and ability to influence events, which drove him to the dark side. Luke throwing down his saber in ROTJ and not killing his father- after he threatened to take his sister- was the ultimate act of letting go and accepting the will of the Force. If he sensed that Han's death, for example, is necessary in order for Rey (his daugher???) to accept her destiny (and this is possible, given his noted Shatterpoint ability in Legends ), then I think he would again accept the will of the Force. That's what Jedi do, and especially Jedi Masters.

To tell you the truth, I don't have a clue what will happen. I don't think anyone does. In the end, I think my ultimate response to you is that the title is what I really object to. If we accept that Luke is a super powerful Jedi Master, which cannon establishes him to be (at this point, Yoda/Palps level at the very least, but I would say a step above), then I think "smashed" is the wrong word to use even he was able to be defeated. And I think to show a smashing fight- as in one where Luke has no hope of escaping- would do a real disservice to the character. And I think it would be a giant middle finger to previous cannon, which is totally unnecessary and innappropriate. At the very least, it's gotta be close, and Luke has to exhibit a real fighting chance of getting out. I mean, at the very least. Is that fair enough for you? That's the best offer you're going to get from me on this topic.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 27, 2015, Original Post Date: Nov 27, 2015 ---

Eh, this sounds like just one of them deals to me, ya know?

And honestly, given the reception Aftermath has gotten as a novel- which is, I would say, Prequel-level hate, from what I have observed- I think JJ will want to avoid being influenced by too much of that material.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 27, 2015 ---

I like these ideas. It does jibe with the rumors we have heard. But I think Luke becoming Yoda Turned Up to 11 is probably the most logical way for him.

And remember, Luke apologized to Yoda on Dagobah in ROTJ for not heeding his advice and leaving. Luke realized upon reflection he should have stayed and prepared himself.

Luke knows what's up as a Jedi by the end of ROTJ. He became one.

 

This isn't the Luke Skywalker you know. This is Jedi Master Luke Skywalker, who has learned the virtue of patience and reliance on the Force to inform his judgment and guide his action. If the Force tells him to back away, he will do it. His throwing down his lightsaber and facing Palpatine wasn't him saying, "Bring it, Chump!" It was him saying, "Do what you want, I am a Jedi, and as such, I will let the Force decide my fate rather than my inner hatred." His transformation was on display throughout ROTJ. He displayed the art of the Grand Scheme in his rescue effort for Han on Tatooine.

This isn't the moisture farmer staring at the binary sunset anymore. A more Sun Tzu-style Luke Skywalker would be the logical development for him if we are talking about a dynamic character who evolves over time.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 27, 2015, Original Post Date: Nov 27, 2015 ---

Some fair points. I would argue that he didn't really need to leave the Rebellion in TESB. He chose to become a Jedi. There was still a risk to his friends. So he displayed at least a requisite amount of perspective regarding attachments and duty to a higher purpose- as I said was one of the criteria from which he showed a willingness to break off from his friends. That higher purpose was his Jedi training.

He had to be aware of the risk. Being aware of the risk, though, is one thing. Popping your Force Vision cherry (which would be a hell of an experience) by seeing your two best buds getting tortured on Cloud City? That shocked him into reality and forced him to make a choice to go after him. A choice for which he apologized to Yoda in ROTJ, indicating he knows it was wrong. This to me would indicate he is willing to accept the possibility that his friends could die. Yeah, Palps and Vader really got under his skin when they brought him up in the Throne Room- but in the end, he gather himself. By throwing away his saber (and I agree- I think any accurate viewing of that scene notes the fact that Luke quite literally realized he was becoming his father when he saw his hand, and he realized what the moment in the cave was all about- but by doing so, he also accepted that it meant he could die, that the crew on Endor would fail, that the fleet would fail, that his father wouldn't turn, and Obi-Wan would have been right and the Emperor already had it in the bag because Luke couldn't kill his father. He knew this, and he accepted it. In a way, that is really a letting go of attachment in dedication to the ideals of the Jedi. That is where his father failed.

I agree with you. Family is major to Luke. It will certainly be a theme. His relation to Rey is a big part of the backstory, I feel, and I get the sense that her status is a huge priority for him.

It is interesting. If anything, though, I see it as really a nod to fans who have been part of the EU space for a long time. Especially to the TOR crowd, what with the obvious reference to Lord Vitiate. And given that the EU space was dominated by novels, it was a great way to do this whilie also firmly establishing the Sith not just as warriors, but as sorcerers.

On that note, I don't know what is going on with Snoke and how he is able to stay alive. But this guy is going to blow our minds, no doubt.

 

Even if Luke is a powerful Jedi (which should make him good not a god) if he goes to a remote planet and his ship is destroyed it does not take much to keep him out of the action.

 

No. Because by that point, fully trained Jedi Master Luke Skywalker would have been aware that Leia is his sister, and he could not allow Leia to fall under the hands of the Sith. And he would have been able to handle Vader with no problem.