Mara Jade - Will She Be Canon?

But she wasn't Mara then, was she? As in, there was no intention to have a character named "Mara Jade" included in the OT, she was a creation of Timothy Zahn. The character that was filmed was "Arica" (may have my spelling wrong there), and was retconned into being Mara Jade in disguise once her backstory was revealed.

 

I still don't think she'll be included, nor any other EU character of her stature. If she's included, it starts a slippery slope of including other EU elements; the whole idea of wiping the slate clean was to free up the storytelling, not bog it down with remixing old characters into the new canon.

 

I see your point, but it's not a direction I see them going. I feel like if they were going to just reintroduce characters like that, they would have been up front about it. They've also claimed that they may one day be open to continuing Legends in print; what happens if they introduced a character from there into canon and now have two separate versions existing in two separate storylines?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: this is the kind of stuff that works for comic books, but not for Star Wars. Rebranding the old stories as Legends and then introducing those characters into the new canon would create an "Ultimates" kind of a situation; the best way to distinguish between the two versions of the franchise is to differentiate them as much as possible, which means staying away from Legends characters and creating new ones.

And I honestly don't want to see a "new" Mara; I love the original Mara, the one I got to know through years of following her through the EU. Part of her magic was that she was initially an antagonist, a relatively minor character that grew into one of the "core" group of characters. Introducing a "new" Mara would be fan service at its worst: if she starts bad, we know she's going to be redeemed and that she's going to be a major player. I want a new "Mara", someone unexpected that becomes more and more important as the story grows.

I also don't think that the new EU will be as focused on Luke and the gang as the old one was; one of the complaints about the old EU was that, to some, it made the events of the movies seem insignificant and I think they'll want to make TFA really feel like the next "big" event after RotJ. I feel like we'll a few arcs from the Big Three, stories that eventually set them up for TFA, and that the rest of the story will be filled in through other characters, with the Three used as supporting cast. They're billing "Aftermath" as the next big thing to happen after RotJ, but so far the biggest character to be featured is Wedge. We may get a tv series or a couple Anthology flicks that help fill in this time, but I think that the Three will largely be delegated to "big" events like the episodic films from now on. Afterall, the EU was always the substitute for additional films, so of course they focused on the Three; now that we're getting them on screen again, there's less pressure to tell printed stories that feature them.

 

If she was in it we would have found out by SDCC, not happening IMO, to predictable.

 

Okay here's a scenario: If Ben Skywalker is Gleeson (a spy, alias etc) we don't need Mara in these movies. She could be already dead. However, in an animated series set between VI and VII, her story could be told, properly and with her key traits and arcs intact.

Hell, they could introduce her in Rebels but really flesh her out in a series set post ROTJ.

 

I'd just like to point out that fro the interview with the author of Shattered Empire, posted on the main page, we're already getting an example of how I think most of the new post-Endor canon is going to go: new characters with the Big Three in supporting roles. We have SE, in which it is confirmed that the Three will be featured as supporting cast, and we have Aftermath, which looks to revolve around Wedge and a new character. From those examples, I think the idea is to delegate the Big Three to the episodic films; we'll still get an account of what they're up to for those 30+ years, but I feel that it'll largely be from the POV of other characters. Think of most of the new stories like "I, Jedi" (though not necessarily in first-person), where there's a main character going through his own story while "bigger" events happen in the background.

 

I see where you're coming from with Obi Wan and agree that it could have derailed the plot if he had a love interest but I don't think it would be the same with the new movie. At the end of the PT, we knew that Obi Wan was committed to the Jedi code (including not having any romantic relationships) and was sent to deliver Luke to his relatives and then watch over him so there would have been no expectations for him to ever have a love interest. On the other hand, at the end of the OT, Han and Leia were in love and were expected to stay together, marry and have kids. Luke had no knowledge of the old Jedi code and spent the first two movies vieing with Han for Leia's affections. That obviously changed once he learned she was his sister but he was still clearly interested in finding love for himself so we were left with the expectations that he would have a wife and children at some point as well. As a result, learning he had one wouldn't derail the plot at all.

I agree that the events shape the character but it's the important, pivotal events rather than everything that ever happend to them. For Mara, as I said in my previous posts, the pivitol events are one, being the Emperor's Hand, Two, meeting, being changed by and falling in love with Luke, and three, becoming a mother.
It doesn't matter if all the stories of her as the Emperor's Hand are erased. As long as she is the Emperor's Hand, the pivotal, character changing event still happened. It doesn't matter if the thrawn trilogy is erased. As long as she meets, is changed by and falls in love with Luke, the pivotal, character changing event still happened. She doesn't have to be infected with spores while defending the galaxy against the Vong as a backdrop to becoming a mother for the last pivotal, character changing event to have happened (or only have one child). Nothing that happened in the Jedi Academy trilogy, Children of the Jedi, Darksaber, New Rebellion, The Correlian trilogy, The Thrawn Duology, Survivor's Quest or anything that came after it beyond the pivotal events mentioned above had any bearing on who Mara is as a character.

The same could be said for the big three. Their characters were pretty well set in the OT. The only character changing things that happened to them were marrying and having children which could easily be written into the new canon keeping those characters in tact. Everything else is just new adventures. I supposed you could also say that the deaths of those close to them would be character changing too but the whole purpose of the reboot, I think, is to undo those deaths and subtracting those darker events won't really effect the essence of those characters or how they relate to Mara as those dark events would be subtracted from her as well.

BTW: I don't think the ambiguity is to get us to buy the new EU. I think it's to keep from giving away too much about the movie. This whole thing, I think, has been about creating buzz for the movie and it's worked.

 

That wasn't where I was going with that at all. Luke having a wife is fine; as you pointed out, it's not like the Order is around to explain/enforce their rules, and I very much support a new Order that allows marriage like the one in the EU. It's that these new movies aren't about Luke; he's the Obi Wan of the trilogy. If Obi Wan had had a love interest in ANH, then he wouldn't have been the mentor figure, he would have been one of the main characters. It would have changed the entire dynamic of the movie. We know that Luke is going to have a very limited role in TFA; if you're not up to date on this, I highly recommend reading any of the multiple threads here in which we discuss his role in TFA. With that in mind, it would completely derail the pace of the movie to suddenly introduce a character and say "Oh, btw, this is Luke's wife; let's take a moment to explain their backstory." Just not going to happen; like Yoda and Obi Wan in the PT, Luke had his time to shine in the OT; the ST will see him taking a back seat to the new heroes.

I say again, these movies are not about the Big Three, the Big Three are in them to support the new generation. We're not seeing the continuation of their story, we're seeing (most likely) the end of it and the beginning of a new story.

Also, have you seen the cast list for this movie? Are you familiar with the major players? There's barely any room for Luke in this film, let alone a fan-service inclusion of Mara.

I didn't say that they're trying to use the ambiguity as a selling point, just that it seems to be the direction that they're going. I think that the Big Three will still get a few adventures, but the majority of the story between RotJ and TFA will be told through new characters. The old EU was the story; much of its appeal was that it was the only continuation we would ever get. The new EU is all about filling in the holes, leaving the main story to the movies; we're not going to get the type of large-scale storytelling that we used to, because that kind of stuff can now happen on screen instead of print.


And we're really going to have to agree to disagree on Mara. I would say the same thing about any other character, that all the events matter; she wasn't the same person in Legacy of the Force as she was in Heir to the Empire, because she was a dynamic character that was shaped by all the events in the interim. Jacen Solo is another good example: without losing his brother and meeting Vergere while being held captive by the Vong, there is no Darth Caedus. You seem to be of the opinion that you would enjoy seeing these characters in new situations; I would much rather they stay the way they are. They're still very much there for us to enjoy, why screw them up by shoe horning them into new canon? I wouldn't mind a continuation of Legends, or at least new stories told within that continuity, but that would be different than uprooting the characters for the sake of fan-service.

TL;DR. I want these new stories to beholden to one thing only: good storytelling. Fan service will only bog them down; let the old favorites stay where they belong, and let's forge a new canon with new favorites.

 

So you wouldn't want Thrawn adapted? He doesn't need/have all that baggage.

 

No, I wouldn't. Unless his story begins with an adaptation of "Heir to the Empire", I'd rather he remain in Legends than have them create a watered-down version for the new canon.

Let me clarify my position: I would be all about adapting these characters on-screen if that was the position they had taken. If, after D-Day, they had come out and said "We're going to continue the episodic films, and they will be based on the characters you already know and love from the EU", I would be ecstatic. However, what they said was, "It was a hard decision, but we're wiping the slate clean and delegating all existing EU as 'Legends' so as to give our writers the creative freedom they need/want."

I feel that just tossing an existing character, like Thrawn, into the new canon would not only be a disservice to the character, it would be a disservice to the Legends stories from whence they came. I always loved that the EU was essentially canon; now that it's not, I want it to be able to stand on its own as a uniquely distinct story from what Disney/LFL is creating. Crossing characters over will just muddy the waters; if you want to enjoy Thrawn, go read the books he's featured in. Same for Mara, Jacen, Jaina, Lowbacca, Saba Sebatyne, Coran Horn and his family, and all the rest. Let them be, let them define the EU that we loved and be there for many more generations to discover; just because they're not in the new movies doesn't mean they'll go away or be any less of the characters we love.

 

To me, it sounds like that means theyre wiping all book continuity which they would have done whether or not they were adapting the characters for obvious reasons. What about that Lucas story group who said they're working on adapting characters? It would seem someone like Thrawn is an easy choice. They don't need to water him down, just put his character in a new situation.

 

They also said that they wiped the EU in order to "avoid playing favorites." Putting Thrawn into the new canon would be doing exactly that; what about people that don't want Thrawn, but want Coran Horn? Or Admiral Daala? Or Kyp Duron? "Why not just put them all in?" you might ask. Because that defeats the purpose of wiping the EU in the first place.

I say again, for what seems like the hundredth time, these characters don't define the events, the events define them. Plopping Thrawn into a new story with no ties to the old canon would be like making a new movie about Luke where he never blew up the Death Star or confronted Vader on Bespin or defied the Emperor on DS2. This is a franchise with history, not removable characters that can be placed willy-nilly like a comic book, where any discrepancies can just be explained away by saying it's the 56th universe or something. The EU was something special, it was like a incubator that allowed these characters we love to grow; to transplant them simply for the sake of fan service cheapens not only the new canon but also the old.

Edit: "We're working on adapting some of the old characters" sounds like they're just placating fans who can't deal with canon reboot. Honestly, don't give me "new" versions of these characters, give me new stories set in Legends that continue to utilize those characters.

 

I guess I just look at it like Marvel comics having endless characters to adapt and retool to fit their continuity, I don't see how its any different here. George Lucas is Stan Lee as Timothy Zahn is Chris Claremont. Not exactly 1:1 but imagine if they rebooted X-Men without Wolverine, Storm or Nightcrawler because they werent created by the original creator or whatever. I just see lots of potential...what if the writers want a strong unique military Admiral for the First Order but can't think of anyone better than the fascinating Thrawn? And they want to do him with all of his best characteristics, I think it would be fantastic. But I guess we will know as time goes on

 

That's a good way of putting it.

Simple fact is that the Star Wars universe was never designed or intended to be like those comic universes. Personally, I'm very glad.

 

That's exactly what I don't want to see. It works for comics because that's the way they've always been, but Star Wars is not a comic franchise. It began on film and remains on film, with the printed material supplementing those films. The canon reboot was a hard pill to swallow because of the draws was always that Star Wars was one story; a franchise like Star Trek might also publish novels, but there was never any effort put toward creating continuity between those novels. The EU was different, all of its individual stories were set in the same over-arching saga of Star Wars. Now that the reboot has occurred, we're left with two sagas: the EU and the new canon. The new canon isn't defined by what came before, otherwise there wouldn't have been a reboot. Comics can create all sorts of alternate timelines and such because those stories are defined by the characters; Star Wars is different because the stories define the characters. It's a subtle difference, but an important one.

Could they make a new character based on Thrawn? Sure. But Thrawn himself should remain in his element.