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Midichlorians

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Vegeta Fett, Sep 16, 2014.

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Did you like midichlorian's being added to the story

  1. Yes it makes sense

    33.3%
  2. No it is not the way I imagined it

    37.0%
  3. I don't really care one way or the other

    24.7%
  4. What's a Jedi

    4.9%
  1. Vegeta Fett

    Vegeta Fett Rebelscum

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    What are your thoughts on midichlorian's, I happen to not care to much as it make sense to me. But I have known a lot of people in my life that are very bugged by this being added to the story. In my mind I always thought only certain people could use the force. I remember reading the Jedi Academy trilogy and Luke learned that if he poked a certain spot in someones mind and that spot bounced him back that person was force sensitive. It always kinda made sense that only certain people would be more strongly connected to the force, and midichlorian's seemed to just be a measure of how connected you were.
     
    #1 Vegeta Fett, Sep 16, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2014
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  2. Djas Puhr

    Djas Puhr Clone Commander

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    Initially I didn't care for it at all.

    But then I read a younger fan explained it like this:

    Midi-Chlorians aren't the Force, anymore than Luke Skywalker himself is the Force.

    They are merely micro organisms that use the Force just as macro organisms would.

    Ultimately I think this aids in the fusion of science and mysticism that Star Wars does so well.

    I also think that it makes sense, that in the Golden Age of the Prequel Trilogy era, that there would be more knowledge about the Force, that was perhaps lost by the time of the Original Trilogy era, which would make it mysterious in that period.
     
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  3. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
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    I have a number of problems with the prequels, but this was never one of them for me. I like that the spirituality of the OT era has scientific backing in the PT era. Even prior to the release of the PT I always thought that the force had a distinctly different flavor than many real world religions in that it dealt purely with energy and no supernatural beings of any kind. It always struck me as a perfect combination of religion and science, and midichlorians just prove to me that Lucas was thinking along the same lines.

    I can see why those who want to view Jedi and the force as a purely spiritual idea can be put off by the explanation (and the stilted writing and forced acting of the explanation scenes in Ep1 aren't doing the concept any favors), but to me it was a welcome deep dive into the concepts behind the force. One that improved and deepened further with concepts introduced in the Clone Wars
     
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  4. Ceruleanlord

    Ceruleanlord Rebel General

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    "Midi-chlorians are microscopic life-forms that reside within the cells of all living things and communicate with the force."
    "We are Symbionts with the midi-chlorians."
    "Life-Forms living together for mutual advantage. Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the Force. Our midi-chlorians continually speak to us, telling us the will of the Force."
    "When you learn to quiet your mind, you will hear them speaking to you."
    Qui-Gon to Anakin, The Phantom Menace

    In the original trilogy, Luke has no knowledge of midi-chlorians, but still has knowledge of the Force. There has been a lot of talk about the prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the Force. Could this relate to being able to have knowledge of the Force without having knowledge of midi-chlorians?
     
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  5. Djas Puhr

    Djas Puhr Clone Commander

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    Has the actual text of the prophecy ever been published? Who made the prophecy?
     
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  6. Pomojema

    Pomojema Ayatollah Of Rock-&-Rolla
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    I personally would think it would be neat if a Sith created the prophecy in an attempt to throw the Jedi off-guard. The joke would ultimately be on them, though - the Sith would be thrown out of power for good and the Jedi would eventually return. I do so want for there to be a reimagining of the Darth Plagueis novel. It could add a ton of depth to the Prequel Trilogy, and by extension, the saga as a whole.

    But on-topic: I actually don't mind the Midi-Chlorian explanation, but I could see how it would irritate some fans to turn a kind of magic into technobabble. I think the expanded explanation in The Clone Wars, which states that the Midi-Chlorians are an extension of the Cosmic Force to reach the Living Force, works a lot better - and as a bonus, it's canon. The explanation doesn't necessarily turn the mystique of an ancient art and way of life into a simple biological thing and instead strengthens the mythic nature of the Force - in a way, it's very science-fantasy in nature, and that's what Star Wars is ultimately all about.
     
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  7. Robi-Wan

    Robi-Wan Rebel Commander

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    Qui-Gon never says anything about the midi-chlorians giving a Jedi her/his power or enabling them to use the Force. They only speak the will of the Force. So when it comes to actively using the Force, to move fast or levitate or do a Jedi mind trick, the midi-chlorians are passive in that junction. Basically a Jedi still requires his own personal connection to the Force, even if he can't understand it without the midi-chlorians.

    Many have complained that they've quantified the Force via the Midi-Chlorians, due to Anakin having the highest recorded amount in The Phantom Menace. This seems to suggest having more midi-chlorians equals greater Jedi. I disagree with that sentiment as well however. Anakin having the abnormally large concentration of midi-chlorians in his cells was only meant to signify him being a vergence in the Force, a suspicion Qui-Gon confirms when Shmi Skywalker explains that Anakin has no father. This leads to the belief that Anakin is the one that Prophecy alludes to, a being who will bring balance to the Force. Anakin would go on to play roles on both sides of the conflict, Jedi Knight and Sith Lord, and in extension this also applies to Luke.

    By Return of the Jedi, Luke is decked out in all black garb and relies on his passion, and even anger to defeat Vader in their final duel. This very same passion for his father is what prevents him from going down the same destructive path as a Sith, still the usage of the Dark Side doesn't make him a Jedi either. If the Jedi are the thesis and the Sith anti-thesis, Anakin and Luke are surely the synthesis. This is what Prophecy is all about, not who's more "powerful". The title Return of the Jedi isn't about Luke joining the ranks, in my opinion it's the return of Obi-Wan, Yoda, and a redeemed Anakin from the netherworld of the force.


    Also would like to note that despite all his Midi-Chlorians, Darth Vader still gets his butt whopped on Mustafar by Obi-Wan. As you can see, one can interpret the Midi-Chlorians, and the Prophecy as very mystical, if anything it enhances the lore of the Force and brings it into a more science fantasy realm, opposed to strictly fantasy. Unfortunately some Star Wars fans have a very generalized "Good vs Evil" or as Palpatine would say, "dogmatic view of the Force".
     
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  8. Kibble

    Kibble Rebelscum

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    Many, many people have complained that introducing the concept reduces the mysticality of the Force and turns it into bad-scifi-schlock-sounding psuedo-science. I agree.

    But I can also see how you can rationalize it in your head, and that it doesn't really ruin the force, if you really think about it, but that doesn't matter. What matters is that those lines were hard to listen to and simply sounded not like Star Wars. Yknow, like every single other line in the prequels.

    The reason this particular line stands out, is that its out-of-place, even in its own movies, not counting the Original Trilogy! There was absolutely no reason to talk about "midi-chlorians" at all, it didn't change any character actions, or thematically relate to anything else that happened in the trilogy (not that ANYTHING thematically related to ANYTHING). Qui-gon could of just said "the Force is strong with him", and nothing would of changed.
     
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  9. Ceruleanlord

    Ceruleanlord Rebel General

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    In the book THE MAKING OF EPISODE I THE PHANTOM MENACE, Lucas elaborates, "The midi-chlorians have brought Anakin into being as 'The chosen one' who will balance the universe. The mystery around that theory is that we don't know yet whether the chosen one is a good person or a bad person. He is to bring balance to the Force; but at this point, we don't know what side needs to be balanced out."

    "The over-riding philosophy in Episode I---and in all Star Wars movies, for that matter---is the balance between good and evil. The Force itself breaks into two sides: the living Force and a greater cosmic Force. The living Force makes you sensitive to other living things, makes you intuitive, and allows you to read other people's minds, et cetera. But the greater Force has to do with destiny. In working with the Force, you can find your destiny and you can choose to follow it, or not."

    Thought this was interesting coming from Lucas himself.
     
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  10. Kibble

    Kibble Rebelscum

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    George Lucas was not the only, or the most important person to make the Star Wars original trilogy. Hundreds of talented, inspired people - artists, writers, costumers, musicians, and the actors all contributed creatively to the process. The passion of these people made Star Wars a reality, and while Lucas can be thanked for the initial creative spark, it is clear from the prequel trilogy that he didn't understand what his idea had became.

    Here's another quote from George Lucas, about Attack of the Clones :

    "We've seen [Yoda], but we've never actually seen him fight. This will be the first time we see him pull out that little laser sword of his and go to town."
     
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  11. Robi-Wan

    Robi-Wan Rebel Commander

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    I'll take the visionary over a bunch of creative people any day, though preferably both. Episode 7 hopefully is gonna be good, but those spinoff movies are in danger of being churned out fanwank. Just look at the quality of the current Marvel movies. What's even more distressing is how willing people are to accept the subpar installments in the Marvel Franchise. Heard how people keep comparing Guardians of the Galaxy to Star Wars? Get real.

    Kibble, your above reasoning for disliking Midi-Chlorians, doesn't pose a strong defense. You just admitted to preferring the rather simplistic line of "The Force is strong with him". Like we hadn't heard that before. I'm gonna assume that's because you simply wanted a classic escapism summer flick experience just like the Original Trilogy. And hey that's understandable, The Phantom Menace is not paced well. But it's always occurred to me the over impudent pessimism following that film's release just set the stage for what was to come in Episode's II and III. Lucas went for what he thought all those "adult" Star Wars fans wanted to see, heavy action and epic lightsaber battles. And thus, you get the battle of Geonosis and Yoda with his lightsaber.
     
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  12. Kibble

    Kibble Rebelscum

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    Hey I liked that movie. But uh, I agree its totes not comparable to Star Wars.

    Brevity is the soul of wit. Anyway when I was a kid, I saw the prequels when they were new, but I never got that experience with the original trilogy. And as a kid I liked the prequels - they certainly had lots of pretty colors. But now I know that pretty colors and people talking don't make a movie, much less a good movie. They have to make sense, have lovable (or at least interesting) characters, and be thematically relevant - the prequels didn't have any of that. The midi-chlorian line exemplifies this, plus ruins something awesome from the original trilogy.

    Clearly Lucas was wrong. My point was that showing Yoda flipping around with a tiny lightsaber saying dumb junk thru out the whole trilogy ruins everything about that character - the themes he represented, his awesome, quiet mysticism, and (if you accept the prequel trilogy as being part of Star Wars) our respect for the formerly awesome and wise character - showing that whoever made that decision (Lucas? He did write it, after all) didn't understand the character.
     
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  13. Ree Yees

    Ree Yees Rebel Official

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    Don't really mind the concept, but the execution was flawed. It was just used to sort of gauge the power level of characters instead of making them intrinsic to any plot development-
     
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  14. Ceruleanlord

    Ceruleanlord Rebel General

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    My last thought on midi-chlorians, magic doesn't exist, everything is based somehow on a scientific principle. Magic is just science that has not yet been explained. What was explained was the 'Living Force', what has yet to be explained is the 'Greater Cosmic Force', hopefully they don't try to explain this.
     
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  15. Shawshank

    Shawshank Rebel General

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    There we go again with things being "ruined." The force is "ruined." Lightsaber battles are "ruined." My childhood is "ruined."

    I legitimately wouldn't be surprised if Lucas created Darth Ruin as a reference to the many whiny fans. Wouldn't surprise me at all.
     
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  16. Kibble

    Kibble Rebelscum

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    Maybe its such a common complaint because like, those things were really ruined.
     
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  17. Ree Yees

    Ree Yees Rebel Official

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    I don't know, my childhood was what it was, and Star Wars was great back then - and classic Star Wars is just as great now - using the word "ruined" is just a simpler way of expressing that "original concepts were somehow changed beyond recognition, usually for the in the sense that the new ideas did build upon the existing ideas but made radical changes to those ideas, thereby either diluting or warping the original beloved concepts to the point that it feels....ruined."

    (emperor)
     
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  18. Cole

    Cole Force Sensitive

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    Haha! Qui-gon should have just whipped out a Dragonball Z scouter to get Anakin's power level.:D
     
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  19. Vegeta Fett

    Vegeta Fett Rebelscum

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    It's over 9000 lol Was there an actual measurement of units in the movie I don't remember "even master Yoda doesn't have a Midichlorian that high" that line is all I remember in comparison
     
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  20. Ree Yees

    Ree Yees Rebel Official

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    "More than 20 000"
     
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