SPOILER Obi-Wan Kenobi Ep. 4 Discussion

Now you've really lost me. Bad speaking tempo? It's too fast? Too slow? Now we're into fuzzy logic. Too slow or too fast for what exactly?

Is it bad in that the tempo makes her unintelligible? Obviously not.


It's certainly not a naturalistic performance a lot of the time. But I can't understand for the life of me why Reva should be naturalistic in her demeanour. Especially in the company of her rival inquisitors, or with Vader, or with the people she's attempting to intimidate. It should be quite obvious that she is presenting a curated image a lot of the time. (On another forum I read people complain that as the villainous focus of a show/film she should be "awe inspiring and effortlessly intimidating"..... I must have missed that memo or the meeting when that was decided. I fear that audiences have become fixated on villains being something like this

Spoiler

. I hope it's just as simple as that and not that people genuinely feel the villain should be inspiring to them.

I've heard this "natural 80s horror" theory. As someone who grew up in the 80s I think I'm qualified to say that although I love 80s comedies, the current trend of 80s nostalgia has elevated it to some mythical benchmark status that it is utterly undue. If they had digital cameras then and the sky was the limit on retakes, different lines and line readings, then a lot of 80s comedies from the legends of comedy would be very different from what they are now.

What has believing that Reva let the good guys got to do with acting though? I feel that people are struggling with allowing Reva's exposition. Like we're characters in the show trying to catch the actor out in a lie? Or accuse her of covering up for the writers, or something. It just seems like an utterly bizarre concern to express. It's like we're discussing if we should give Moses Ingram permission to proceed with the premise that her character let the good guys escape in order to track them and the underground network that's helping them.

 

For me, if the acting is off, I put all the blame on the director, not the actor. For example, Robert Rodriguez is a decent director, but for years I noticed his directing had flaws, that is why TBOBF is somewhat flawed too (one good episode in the Mandalorian doesn't all of a sudden make you a great director). I enjoyed TBOBF mostly because my expectations were extremely low, and I loved all the Tusken Raider tribe stuff... (Reva for me, is acting really well despite the director's flaws, the 5th Brother, for me is awful, the director should have developed his approach much more).

ANYWHO, a good director can take a weak actor and make them shine. For example, David Bautista is a wrestler, he is not a seasoned actor; however, James Gunn made him shine in the Guardian of the Galaxy movies, watch Bautista in the James Bond film Spectre, for me he was a lackluster henchman in that film... the director did not make him shine just used his size for action scenes.

Anywho, Debra Chow, and Bryce Dallas Howard ( are getting so much praise for the Mandalorian but they are obviously getting assistance from Jon Favreau the show runner) are fairly new directors or low caliber directors, for me, not saying that they are not any good, but I know their track records. I will not blame any inconsistencies in film or TV series on the actors, but solely on the directors. It is their job to make the actors shine. ( I'm not gonna get into JJ Abrams who is the King of reviving old burnt out franchises, but has flaws as a director as well... I still wonder why Steven Spielberg, a great director, never directed a Star Wars film considering GL is one of his good friends, but pushed his protege, Jar Jar Abrams to direct the TFA, hehehe crazy old wizard rant done move along now... )

Anywho, for Kenobi, my expectations are low, I see the flaws, its not a perfect series like the Mandalorian, but decent Disney+ Star Wars show... I hear that Andor is great from the rumour mill but I'll wait to see it FOR myself, my expectations are very low, but hoping for greatness, nonetheless.

 

Catching up with the conversation in here.

Maybe we shouldn't look at it as her expecting or anticipating, but more so as her covering all the bases. Vader tells her that she's dead if she fails, and as we can see in the end of this episode, if not for the tracker, she would be dead.

I actually like it, it's a stark contrast from the vanity and arrogance that usually dooms the dark side.

 

At least they did not encounter the Security Chief who had difficulties to let Tala enter .....

Apart the Security Chief.

 

Star Wars is full of so many bizzare rescue/escape stories it's difficult to cite them all. The Han Solo rescue plan makes zero logical sense. In The Last Jedi they throw a trash can on top of BB-8 to disguise him as if you wouldn't notice a trash can moving around. It goes on and on... if you find this stuff objectionable then it's possible a person has grown past Star Wars.

Again, I really don't get it. There's an entire Clone Wars series and two films with their back story. Humanizing a mass murderer with some backstory doesn't seem to make sense to me when it comes to Obi-Wan's narrative going forward.

This biggest issue with series like this and Boba Fett are how deeply connected to the timeline these characters are and how much headcanon people have built around them. Mando doesn't carry that baggage. Neither does Andor, even though we know how his story ends. I had low expectations for Obi-Wan because I didn't know what story there was to tell. I'm pleasantly surprised with this arc of him finding the force again. It should pay off well with his final confrontation with Vader and by finding Qui-Gon.

Also, with all the productions going on people might need to rethink their expectations for live action Star Wars. The lightsaber work in the films takes a lot of pre-production work and I wonder what that means for Ahsoka. Lots of lightsaber scenes might be difficult for a series that runs 4-6 hours.

 

Little Leia in a Jawa disguise. Bright eyes and all! That would have been pretty awesome! .....[flips the "both sides" switch]... That would have been cringe fan service.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 9, 2022, Original Post Date: Jun 9, 2022 ---

I don't think Reva would have been in the temple at that point. The temple had been purged by the time Kenobi got there and altered the beacon. If Reva was there at that time then why didn't she call out to him and Yoda for help?

And wouldn't that undermine Reva's notion that Jedi can't help themselves but to come to someone's aid? Wouldn't she be saying that it's a lie and a myth since they never came to save her in the temple.

 

Granted, if he was still there, he was probably not wanting to stop her again after what happened the last time

 

yep, too slow. Too slow to make believable what she is saying and give rythm to scenes. Her scenes and interactions with others are slow. I guess is a matter of find good/cool/realistic dialogs in movies and shows.
When I watch shows or movies i like to pay attention to all the details: light, cinematography, acting, rythm... and I have my reasons and thoughts to find good and bad actings. At the end is the same reason i found Pernilla August or Natalie Portman with not the best acting in the world in PT or David Pasquesi in BOBF.

Sorry cause my written english is not perfect and maybe am not explaing very well.

 

Maybe it's the direction that's the problem then since a director can tell the actor to deliver lines faster. And should tell them if the lines are being delivered too slowly to make the audience believe them (a specific problem I've never encountered or even heard anyone complain about, ever) They can also edit their dialogue in a way that makes it faster. Even speed it up. Clearly the speed of delivery was satisfactory for the director/editor/producers.

If you're still expecting a naturalistic performance then you would need to look elsewhere since, apart from Harrison Ford sometimes, nobody has ever really been naturalistic in this franchise. In fact the performances are usually quite mannered, when they've been any good.

I'm reminded of the Emperor "Oh... I'm afraid...the deflector shield... will be quite operational....when you're friends arrive."

 

I agree on that. The director should control every aspect of the show, including the little details like that "fence thing". If I was a director I wouldn’t leave that in the final footage.

Sorry but I completely disagree with this. Rogue One, Solo and the ST if they have something is absolutely incredible castings, from extras to principal characters, with incredible naturalistic actings. Daisy Ridley is one of the most incredible discoverings of the last years in cinema. Finn, Kylo, Beckett, Lando (and Solo!) Krennic, The Ersos, even Pascal or Herzog in TM... just incredible and charismatic performances for great characters. And that for sure increases the level of those projects.

Surely I can avoid the majority of the weak details and enjoy the great parts, cause OW has great parts too. Am just saying the major problems of the show have been the writers and a weak casting (compared the other Disney SW projects), always speaking for my taste. Edgerton is so great and we have seen him just a few minutes. Whish appeared more.
Am glad other people enjoys all the show without overthink too much. I admit sometimes am too meticulous in some aspects.

 

I loved it but hate the short season that leave little time for more character development.

 

I hear ya, Xeven, but it's certainly longer than if the story had been a feature film (as it was originally envisioned to be.) But on the other hand, I like the fact that the showrunners had the flexibility to make as many -- or as few -- episodes as was necessary to tell their tale.

I'd much rather finish a season wanting more than being left with a feeling that we got a bunch of 'filler' episodes to fill a particular pre-set quota.

 

Vader thinking he killed Kenobi was one my of suggestions in the last thread, page 9 , on why he let Kenobi get taken away like he did. Do I win a trophy?!?

Truthfully, I think she was just lying to Leia to break her spirits. But maybe they did think he was dead? Who knows?

 

Just caught up on the conversation. I think I'm in the minority, but this show, for me, has major issues. There are some good things as well, but as seems to be the course with Star Wars lately (Book of Boba Fett and this show for sure), I think they REALLY need someone to tell them "uh, let's NOT do that."

The Good: I've probably said it before, but Ewan as Obi-wan is always a treat. At this point he just is the character.
Another good is Hayden back, even if it's hard to tell when he's Vader and when its a stunt double. Just knowing he is back is enough for me.
I love the cyber-punk planet in episode 2, and it makes me want more of Coruscant. Hopefully we will get more of that place in Andor. Uncle Owen (Joel Edgerton?) is awesome. I would like to see more of him, but at this point don't think we'll get more than one or two scenes.

The young actress playing Leia. Wow. Totally believable in the role. A+ from me.

The Bad: So far, I don't like the performances by either the third sister or the fifth brother. I assume it isn't easy acting with all that make up (5th brother), but I'm really underwhelmed by Moses Ingram's performance. Deborah Chow needed to get more out of those performances; and what's up with the heavy use of two word sentences??? It really is odd to me. Two episodes left so hopefully I can come back and say "Wow, that was an awesome performance!"

Vader. I never thought I would say this. But I think they got him wrong. He's scary as hell when he's just menacing, as he is in Empire and tells Admiral Piett "don't fail me again... Admiral!" Or in Jedi when he tells the Commander on DSII "I hope so Commander, for your sake. The emperor is not as forgiving as I am." Talk about menacing. When he comes in and goes Kylo Ren? Not so much. I also don't get why's he upset? He let Obi wan run off in the previous episode. I'd tell the writers, some consistency please.

This is one I hate to put here, as the show isn't over. But, the interactions between Obi wan and Leia. I love them, and both actors are putting in good work. However, should there be THIS much interaction? That message in Episode IV really does have the tone of someone who's never met Obi wan. She's more than met him, she's been rescued by him 2xs and developed a bond. Again, I hope they do something that fixes this (I can't imagine what that could be), but yeah I'm worried they can't/won't.

Ugly: Not anything too major, but to me the costumes of the Inquisitors look cheap. Would have put this under "Bad" but that would ruin the whole good bad and ugly thing. LOL

Overall: I am enjoying it (much more than Book of Boba Fett). But more and more I hope we don't get anymore Book of Boba Fett or Obi Wan Kenboi seasons. I don't want a Luke Skywalker show, and I'd even say no to a Lando show. Go read the EU books on Lando or Boba. I am much more hopeful for shows like Andor and the Acolyte, dealing with characters we haven't seen, or at least not much (Mon Mothma).

Anyway, just my two pennies worth of ideas. I'm sure I could come up with more for each category, but that's enough for today.

 

I'm enjoying Moses Ingram's performance very much. I think she is a breath of fresh air for the franchise. I have issues with Fifth Brother's voice. Otherwise, I don't have a problem with him. I think the writing is tighter with this series than with any of the other DisneyPlus Star Wasr series . . . so far. The writers can still mess up the last two episodes. There are some writing decisions that need to be paid off or explained before the series ends - the Grand Inquisitor's fate and Reva's decision to bring Leia back to Fortress Inquisitorius for questioning.

 

I meant trying to satisfy both hardcore and casual fans is an impossible task.

Avoiding utterly laughable plot point like walking through a base with a 10 year old under your coat and no one noticing you both have a huge raincoat on and there are four feet sticking out of the bottom, should not be hard.

 

I think she's really great as well. Outside of Ewan, I think this is the most solid performance in Star Wars since John Boyega/Adam Driver in Episode 7.