Official Episode VIII - Kylo Ren Discussion Thread

True, I just find it interesting that the one glimpse of Kylo we get, is without the mask, pointing his LS sadistically. And the mask? We see destroyed. It's all speculation but it does have the feel/implication that whatever he was trying to accomplish with the mask he didn't need to anymore. Even Han told him as much (though it's unlikely that he would get rid of the mask based on what Han said)

 

@Choose Light said the same thing! hard to tell how deliberate the art is, though. Driver's eyes are kinda baggy as-is.
i'm all in for "haunted" though ~ hahaha

 

It would be too staged if he did it knowingly. For me, it's another Kylo Ren tantrum. His mother will remind him of his compassion - the one thing that really sets him off (failed to kill Finn on Jakku, went easy on Rey, weakened by killing daddy etc). What it means in the long run though is another question. Is it a sign that he no longer needs the mask and is becoming more of a monster? Or is it a return to humanity?

 

i feel like the trailer is designed to point us that way.
which is why i tend to look in the other direction ~ hahahaha

 

The thing with Driver, is that he could flip from cold tortured soul to wise cracking charmer in the blink of an eye. I suspect that is partly why he was cast. Knowing Driver, you can imagine him redeemed and actually being like his father. The Dark Side has simply put a horrible spell on him.

People underestimate the power of the Dark Side sometimes...


...and yes I'd love to see that too!

 

totally agree. can't imagine they'd waste his charmy side by spiraling him down into oblivion. one grin on that face is movie-going gold.
and to see him pull off a Solo move of any kind--well i know some people might hate it, but i want to see Han's legacy live.

 

"Han-haunted"--is that a Thing? It should be.

 

It's a thing from now on.

 

My two cents. The mask is a representation of the persona Kylo Ren. Without the mask in TFA we saw glimpses of Ben Solo.

Aftermath:Empire's End had the Acolytes of the Beyond being given masks to wear in order to infuse themselves with the Dark Side. Knights of Ren seem to all be wearing masks and that to me is one of the reasons to think they developed from the Acolytes. There was one girl in the book who put on a mask (imbued with the darkside) that made her go berserk

But back to Kylo/Ben. Canon or not we know that the ashes in which Kylo puts his helmet are those of his enemies. With the info from Aftermath if we piece it together it makes sense that Snoke's training demanded of him to do that in order to infuse his mask with the dark side.

Thus the mask serves not only the purpose of making him look intimidating and menacing (outward) (which it does well), but also, based on these snippets of info I mentioned above, I think the mask also serves another inward purpose - making the wearer under the influence of the darkside through an object, which apparently is a thing.

Thus, to me a smashed helmet can very possibly be a symbolic thing. A realisation that his conflict with the light side will continue and also it could be an indication (or a foreshadowing) that he is distancing himself from the person Kylo Ren. The mask is like the objects in fairytales that put a spell on the wearer, so my reading for the smashed helmet is breaking the spell.

I don't have a theory about how the helmet gets smashed, and BTW that trailer shot may not even be in the movie, for me it represents a symbolic imagery that is optimistic. The mask that is not his true self is shattered. I will not be surprised if the shot was made specifically for the trailer in order to convey that message.

Also, BTW, brilliant staging of the shattered helmet. It actually looks so much like Vader's melted one and it is quite a deliberate trompe-l'œil effect at first. Brilliant symbolism. (And to make sure that the symbolism is not lost Vader's theme and Kylo's theme are both played).

I think it is a brilliant piece of editing that conveys a lot. The legacy of the dark side (Vader) that Kylo seemed to believe in is shattered. Remember the lines of Lor San Tekka in TFA that I think are the lines so full of meaning and hidden message - the truth that is his family. I think those words a key for the character for the entire trilogy.

So I do not think that the smashed helmet indicates that he doesn't need the helmet anymore becuase he is a monster without it and that's why he doesn't need it.
He doesn't need it because , as his father said, Ben Solo his son, doesn't need it.

Yes to that!

In TFA Kylo Ren said that Ben Solo was weak and foolish like his father, which to me says a lot. So yes. The casting of Adam Driver is a stroke of genius because of his range.
So far he does a brilliant job of reminding us of his legacy of being Anakin's grandson, I sincerely hope we will also have a chance to see the other familial legacy that he is - being Han and Leia's son.

I will basically give anything if by the end of ep. IX Ben Solo has returned and we can see something that reminds us of Han. To me the way to portray that legacy is to have Ben fly the Falcon by the end of this trilogy. Han would have given anything (and he already did) for this to come to pass.

SW is a space fairytale with ultimately a positive optimistic message. I refuse to believe that the fate of Han and Leia's son will end up being dark and depressing.



#SaveBenSolo

 

Good point. Though I don't feel like there was a ton of misdirection in the TFA trailer. It gave us enough to know the basic framework and the movie filled in the rest. Still who knows what they could have in store for us. I can't wait until Dec, but I'm kind of enjoying the "not knowing" part too. Once we see the movie we won't have that mystery to speculate over anymore. As much as I enjoyed TFA and it's trailer, when I watch the trailer now (even though it's still good) it doesn't have quite the same punch because I know the story that it's alluding to. Still look forward to 8

 

I am seriously beginning to wonder whether Ren is under some terrible Dark Side spell. I'm not taking away personal responsibility here, just suggesting that there might be more to Snoke's abusive tendencies than we realise. What's more, it would turn everything on its head. The audience really take Han's pov - "he has too much Vader in him". We think because he is a grandchild of Vader that there is something rotten in him. That has never sat right with me (it wasn't true of Anakin for starters!). I'm with Leia - it's down to Snoke. I think it was maybe @Maximus that said before that we haven't really met Ben Solo. That he hasn't had a chance to exist yet. Or something along those lines. I'm beginning to think this way. Just looking at Ren he is just in a perpetual state of conflict. Whatever human personality he has, it hasn't really revealed itself yet.

We've had the redemption arc with Vader - perhaps with Ren it will be different, allowing for the audience to more easily accept him back into the light? If it is revealed that Snoke has poisoned his mind beyond just pulling him to the Dark Side ala Sidious/Anakin then not only could Ben break free of this spell but it would allow for this other, Solo-esque personality to shine through?

Wishful thinking maybe. And I'm not keen on sidestepping personal responsibility. But I just feel there is something different about Snoke in how he twists the minds of his underlings...

 

Here's my take on Kylo/Ben. I think he really wants the power of the dark side, but in the back of his mind he knows that he's doing the wrong thing by being a space Nazi. We all think about Luke reforming the Jedi to make it more in line with the legendary Gray Jedi, but what if this worked for Kylo too? We know this power he seeks caused him to kill his father, he didn't kill his father out of hate, but out of a desire for more of the dark side. My theory is that Rey is the one who convinces Kylo that he can still be a good person and embrace the light and the dark (I'm team Reylo btw). Then he could still seek the power of the dark, while channeling it for good. He could fight the selfish appeal of the dark side by finding someone he loves more than himself to protect (Rey). This love could then grow to include the entire Resistance, and he would then be able to aid in the overthrow of Snoke and the destruction of the First Order, while still growing in the power he seeks.

 

You can't channel the dark and use it for good. That's not how the Force works!
If you use the Dark Side then you are being greedy. if you're being greedy then you don't care about doing good for the galaxy.

 

How is it possible to not use the dark side for good and be a Gray Jedi? If they Gray Jedi can exist I think it assumes that they embrace all of the force, including the dark side. Plus it's not purely the dark side he would be channeling, he would also tap into the light, which would balance the dark. However, if there are no Gray Jedi then I see your point, that's the traditional view on the Force, my theory is dependent on the Gray Jedi route.

 

ironically, i don't think Ren Ben knows he's a space nazi at all. i think he senses something is not okay about the way in which they are carrying out their agenda and he might have a vague unease about Snoke (but it's very dim in his subconscious at best right now), but he seems to fully support the idea of a rather fascist ruling class setting things to rights.

i would also argue that he didn't kill Han to gain more Dark, he did it to try to quash the call of the Light (maybe splitting hairs to some, but i think there's a real difference). also, it may have been less about literal power (let alone Dark power) than about basic self-mastery (and pleasing Snoke). it's clearly a moment of total confusion for him. he expected to feel stronger for having done it, but whatever it was he wanted to gain, he didn't.

The only Dark spell i'm thinking is going on is just pure and simple (which is never actually simple) seduction. Snoke took advantage of a confused and angry young man--and probably seeded a lot of that confusion and anger himself to begin with.

so yes, there's still personal responsibility here, but there's also responsibility of others who failed to guide and guard this kid in the way he needed it most. that's on our OT heroes.

which is why yes, Snoke is the consarn villain, but they all have a deep responsibility to fix this mess.
Han has done his part. Luke and Leia will no doubt do theirs, and ultimately it's up to Ben to accept help, set things to right, and atone for his crimes.

i have no idea either way. i honestly don't think there's enough in a trailer to say anything with certainty about anything. i can't judge the TFA trailer because i never watched it. seems like a lot of people felt they were misled by it, though (like about Finn). so i just shrug. hahahaha
like you said, all will be revealed come December. then we can start agonizing on IX.

 

No such thing as grey Jedi. You're either a Jedi or you're not. You're something else. And if you start using the dark side, everything Lucas set up shows us that this will lead to your doom unless you reject it.

 

i still laugh at this picture. i never saw it before TFA, but i can't imagine anyone seeing this and not knowing Adam Driver was playing Han Solo's kid ~ hahahaha

 

It only leads to your doom if you embrace the dark side and forsake the light. That's what Kylo is trying to do in the Force Awakens, he wants to grow his connection to the dark and cut the pull of the light. Anakin operated in the grey area for awhile, and I think there was something to his ideas of not being limited by the Jedi council in order to accomplish its goals in the Clone Wars. Unfortunately Palpatine deceived him, and forced him to embrace the dark and purge the light. What I'm saying is that if a grey Jedi exists, it would be one that balanced the dark and the light. I'm not claiming they do, and up until this past trailer there has been no indication they could exist, but if they do exist, then they would have to be able to balance both. Obviously a grey Jedi would have to be someone that had a cause to fight for, because the dark side attracts the selfishness and greed of an individual. The balance is probably not an easy path, but wouldn't it make sense if Luke was the first one to be able to walk it?

 

(from The Art of Star Wars III: The revenge of the Sith pag.44/45)



"no ugly scar for Anakin because he need to be attractive to Padmé"

"big hair for Padmé, like a lioness, because she's in love with a monster"

remind me of something...

 

So what's the message for kids? It's ok to be greedy sometimes? It's ok to use hate and anger? I don't see that happening for a second. Nor should it.