Official Episode VIII - Kylo Ren Discussion Thread

or the students are not literally dead ~ only metaphorically dead.
yep, still clinging to this old shred ~ hahahaha : D

 

You mean in coma?

 

There is no evidence or suggestion in that chapter of Luke doing such a thing.

 

would that make them "mostly" dead? : D

 

Well, they still would have brain function but they wouldn't be able to communicate with the outside world, so yeah. Also, brain death is a good option, as a person is basically kept alive with an outside apparatus, as his brain is shut down and cannot be brought back into function.

 

er...no, that's not actually what i'm talking about.
i mean they're literally alive still; just not Luke's students as such anymore.

 

You've meant dead like Anakin was? "From a certain point of view?"

 

yeah, like that ~ hahahaha

databank is still the only explicit source, which i still contend makes it suspect. every other source still uses fuzzy language.
i agree it's a long shot (and i'm not even sure i believe they're not actually dead), but i think there's more to this story that will be revealed.
either Ben didn't kill them himself or they're not literally dead.

or Disney has just been needlessly coy about it for more than two years now ~ hahaha

 

@FN-3263827, why do you want them to be alive though?

 

i don't necessarily. it's the fact of Ben killing them that bothers me.
it would just be nice for them to either be alive or killed by someone else so that it's less blood on Ben's hands.

it doesn't change the fact that he can be forgiven, but it would be really interesting if he was innocent of this in particular and there was some kind of twist.

 

Unfortunately the world isn't nice.
The thing is it would weaken Ren as a villain if he didn't kill the students. Yes, he doesn't need to kill them all, but he has to kill some of them. I want to see a flashback of a twisted and evil Ben Solo "slaughtering" Luke's students. Maybe he spares some of them though...

If he didn't do anything, then you can't forgive him...

 

he killed Han Solo; he's been part of a massive evil regime committing heinous crimes. he murdered Lor San Tekka, ordered all those people disposed of.
i'm suggesting he was attacked on the assumption that he's a murderer, but maybe we come to find out that prior to his "war crimes" he was innocent except of Snoke's seduction.

i dunno ~ i'm just speculating on the possibility of twists and turns.
because the language surrounding this has been kinda mysterious, i'm wondering if there's some secret here to be uncovered.

 

I think JJ/Kasden/Arndt presented Kylo the way they did with their eyes wide open re what they were doing.

From a Dec 2015 EW article (http://ew.com/article/2015/12/21/jj-abrams-kylo-ren-shocking-act-star-wars-force-awakens/)

To create someone new that Star Wars fans would hate and fear, Abrams says they made the hard choice to kill off someone who definitely made that type of mark, someone we love: a particular scoundrel who also proved he was more heroic than anyone might have guessed back when we first met him.

“Star Wars had the greatest villain in cinema history. So, how you bring a new villain into that world is a very tricky thing,” Abrams told the crowd. “We knew we needed to do something f—king bold. The only reason why Kylo Ren has any hope of being a worthy successor is because we lose one of the most beloved characters.”

Btw, the whole article is worth reading if anyone hasn't already.

 

this is about Han. not sure what this has to do with Luke's students.

intrestingly, when Arndt does mention them, this is what he says:

We came up with a backstory that Luke had a pupil who turned against him and fought him, and killed all the other pupils, and that was a thing that exploded the family and destroyed Han and Leia’s relationship,” Arndt said.​

do you see the ambiguity? it doesn't say "Luke was teaching Han and Leia's son" it's just an anonymous pupil.
that's a strange way to reference even the "idea" if Ben is the actual killer and there's no question about it.

 

I know where you coming from. I'm also believing that the events of the temple will be the twist of TLJ. But it's more about why Ben turned and why he killed the students. That and Luke burning the temple. Haha!

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 9, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 9, 2017 ---

In Arndt's version of the script the Jedi killer wasn't related to the Solos, wasn't he?

 

possibly! i'm just speculating as much as anybody. like i said, i'd like the twist to be that it was someone else who did the deed.
one less thing his mother and uncle have to forgive him for--even though they would if he asked them to.

 

Hm? No. It's about why they had Kylo kill Han. As in, the whole "Kylo is an evil villain" was a very deliberate message.

And yes. Arndt worked on the stoey *before* JJ/Kasden did the script. That student became Kylo. As the Databank makes no bones about.

But considering Kylo's murder of Han, I'm not sure what the point of deceiving the audience about Kylo killing his fellow students would be? Witnessing Han's murder was a far greater gut-punch for the audience than hearing about the slain students could ever have been.

 

Maybe someone else set everything up but Kylo is still the one who killed some of the students.

If Ben didn't kill the students why would he leave Luke then?

 

i think it would be interesting, that's all.

we've judged this kid. the galaxy judged this kid before the FO made itself the galactic threat. Han and Leia judged him too.
it would be fun to find out that he didn't get here the way we think he did. that's there's more to it.

that's all. : D

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 9, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 9, 2017 ---

shame. guilt. anger.

he doesn't have to be the killer if he's complicit somehow: he's the means by which Snoke got to them; he convinced them to defect?
and don't forget, Luke lied to him, in his eyes. so their relationship is over.

people keep speculating that Luke was gone when it happened and that's why they haven't had their showdown.
what if Luke was there and just let him walk away?

we really don't know what's happened to Ben since he left Luke or what their final encounter was like. for example, if the students aren't dead, but all were dragged to the Dark side, that'd be a reason for Luke to destroy the temple. and Ben wouldn't have been Ren yet and therefore not obliged to kill his uncle (if he even wants to kill him now). there's all kinds of possibilities.