Official Episode VIII - Kylo Ren Discussion Thread

Worship the eight pack...you know you want too.

“Wink wink” “nudge nudge”

 

So...

Spoiler

RIP #SaveBenSolo and welcome #Renperor?

 

Most likely. But you never know.

TLJ taught me that.

 

Nothing wrong in being an optimist for what you wanna see.

 

my thought:

Spoiler

kylo ren will be slain by rey in IX because this is a Disney movie and it was said that ST is to officially end the skywalker saga and open new chapters to SW universe

correct me if im wrong

 

Spoiler

Even Leia lost her hopes... That's really sad. Especially for me as a big Kylo Ren fan. On the other side I always liked the idea of an evil Kylo Ren who is trying to rule the galaxy. But maybe there is still light in him. Let's hope for the best.

Not unlikely...


Oh btw...

Spoiler

I was so right about young Ben and Luke.

 

That seems like an awfully strange arc...because if Ren dies, then the Original 3 all failed.
Seems weird to tell that story. Like what would the motivation be to show them all grow old and fail. I just can't see that working. Ben has to live or else the Skywalker Saga makes no sense.

Its sad that the leia arc in IX probably wont be fully explored as they planned because that surely was going to be important to the Kylo Ren redemption arc

 

I...don’t really know what to say.

I saw two directions that this film could go in regarding Kylo: have him not aligned with either side by the end of the film to complete a redemption arc in IX...or he kills Snoke and takes power for himself at the end of TLJ. It was just one or the other in my mind, and I’ve said it here too: either Han’s death was meaningful and Ben is redeemed, or it was both meaningful and meaningless, just allowing Ben to spiral further.

But I genuinely did not expect it to be the latter option, even if I did throw it out there as one of two possibilities that I foresaw, and I’m so glad that I didn’t commit to making any outright predictions about the film itself, but rather what Rian would attempt to convey and how he would attempt to convey it.

Rian had me on the end of a string the entire time.

 

Yeah, I didn't think Kylo would end up "lost". Though at the same time, I ever really had a picture in my mind of how a redeemed Ben or even semi-redeemed Ben would end up at the end of this movie. I had a vague ReyLoish idea that he and Rey would go off together but it didn't make that much sense.

This made sense. They've literally made him become what Vader wanted to be. And it was clever and poignant and emotive.
Is it truly the end of Ben Solo?
I'm still not certain it is. I wonder if they have had to make it look that way in order to give IX some tension? Had the conflict in Ben still been visible then we wouldn't have accepted him as the Supreme Leader nor as a viable threat to Rey. Now I am not sure. Though I really do hope he is redeemed else it will be a tad depressing.

I need @FN-3263827's guidance!!!

 

I'm leaning towards no redemption now, or an eleventh hour either death/life imprisonment punishment redemption for him. And that's if IX builds up to it though out the entire movie, and Snoke foresaw his death and used it to force Kylo 100% to the dark side.

With Reylo I believe it's either sunk completely (the point of TLJ with their arc and this ship was to show that while it was tension filled and they could relate to each others loneliness, it's still unhealthy and they have too far diverging paths and goals to ever fulfil it). The door shutting scene at the end, I think, emphasises the end of both their force AND any potential friendly bond they may share. Though I think Kylo still cares for her to some extent, just not enough to let her live after she declines his initial offer to rule together-it's why he says "please" so desperately and gets so angry after she refuses. It still might (might) happen if JJ wants him redeemed and they continue to address their arc in IX. But I personally doubt it.

Yeah he has become his grandfather, despite trying to "kill the past" in that regard.

Ben Solo is now a part of Kylo Ren's past...I still want to meet him, but I'll guess I never will unless eleventh hour redemption.

I think there was miniscule conflict in him with Rey, but he'll kills it by killing Snoke and then vowing to kill the past. He's made his dark side bed and now he has to lie in it.

 

Spoiler

Exactly. Kylos arc is the main point I am a bit uneasy about. What's next?
It does not seem that he has truly loyal followers in the FO including Hux, who really hates him.
We can now in IX expect to see a what if...
what if Vader would have defeated the emperor in full health?
Could turn out that he gets played out by the FO and Hux; they don't trust him.
Ren and Hux are in a terrible mental condition at the End off IX.
Who will succeed at the end!

 

The thing is, ReyLo did happen. But not in the way I expected. I thought ReyLo would represent the idea of kindred spirits/true love. But in TLJ it presented more of a notion of infatuation (the shirt off scene was telling). As RJ said, these films are about the journey through adolescence and the Rey/Kylo story speaks to that.

However, I haven't lost hope of Ben Solo's return. I know Rey shut the door on him, but that was more about shutting the door on the Dark Side. Ren clearly needs Rey and that hasn't changed. The only question remains whether his mind is just too twisted to return. But if that is the case, it would be quite sad - though perhaps the audience would benefit from seeing a villain truly face the consequences of his or her actions....

 

“He skips straight to what Vader became (later in life), which is a villain who has more of a connection to a hero and is not just someone to be vanquished. He’s someone who’s going to take a more complicated journey.”

— Rian Johnson on Kylo Ren, USA Today

Taken from Sleemo's Tumblr.

Thoughts?

Complicated journey of complicated redemption despite everything that's happened! Or will he be worse than vader?

 

Fear - fear will keep the FO in line. Fear of his power! (As it did with Snoke).
I also think the KoR will be in IX.

I think we're in for an all out war. But that's my early reaction. It took me time to come around to Ren in TFA (as @FN-3263827 will testify) so I shall hold fire on my predictions now!

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 14, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 14, 2017 ---

That suggests the redemption is alive, imo.

 

I agree about infatuation. Kinda like when you're a teenager and you see a handsome boy and think "Omg, he so hot" without really thinking about his personality. It also seemed a little like a badly boy romance, and Rey was the girl that thought she could redeem him. Except it was deconstructed to show that while he came to care for her, it wasn't enough to change himself.

Ben solo may return, see the quote I pasted from USA today.

Maybe he'll realise redemption, but it'll be too late for anyone to forgive him or for him to DO anything or redeem himself (he's put himself in such a place of power at the hierarchy of an evil organisation, so he can't overthrow it or Snoke to save himself so the resistance is gonna take him out, and he's burned too many bridges with people who cared for him to seek redemption with them. Even if he reforms or says he does, they'll reject him.)

Maybe TLj also pinpointed that redemption has to come from his own heart, not people wanting to change him. Like Rey.

He may die alone.

 

Yep. Well said.

 

So Ben Solo had the same lightsaber before he became Kylo Ren. The hilt looks the same in the flashback:

Spoiler

 

I think he also doesn't regret his decision on a great level. He's still hot headed and rash by the time he faces Luke in the end, I think Rey's rejection is affecting him more than he wants to admit. That, and hatred of the uncle who he thought wanted to kill him.

In that last look between them, I think that while I saw someone longing in his eyes there was also acceptance of their new dynamic (basically Adam Driver is an amazing actor!). He doesn't want to be redeemed, even with her.

The last shot of him alone, kneeling and clenching his fist as the dice disappears and the millennium falcon disappears, reinforces this view.

 

I can't believe I'm writing this but yeah, ReyLo did happen and it made sense, it was gripping and explored properly. It's not only infatuation but it's also a consequence of Luke's rejection and Rey's loneliness : he was the only one listening to her when she needed to find her place in all this. But his support was only an illusion.

Regarding redemption in IX, I don't know, TLJ taught me to be very careful with any kind of prediction. But I don't see it happening, because somehow it would be a disservice to the character and for the same reason I did not expect a redemption in VIII : he truly believes he is doing the right thing, he is a fanatic and that's why he is a great fully fleshed villain.

 

I don't think it's quite an "illusion", more like he was too selfish to really know how to support her or see that there was other paths he could take in that throne room. I think Kylo is sick and tired of everyone trying to redeem him, and while he did care for Rey and pleaded with her to join him, as deep down he wants them to be in the same side, it's on HIS own selfish terms, not any of hers. Still unhealthy as hell though for a relationship

Maybe not redemption but a "heel realisation". Not realising that what he is doing is "wrong", just that there might have been other ways to go about it and it's just too damn late to change course. He'll stick to the dark side to the bitter dark end, and reap what he's sowed and damn the consequences.