Official Episode VIII - Kylo Ren Discussion Thread

Now with film in mind I have a LOT of thoughts about Kylo. Adam's acting was so good he stole every scene he was in and owned Kylo's arc and development. Now I'm not saying Kylo is a good moral character, but he is pretty complex. And this is me trying to analyse him.

There are two things which caught my attention:

1. For the entire last 2/3 of TLJ and it isn't resolved by the ending so it was meant to be a plot point into IX, he thinks his mother is dead. He even cries over this, when Rey calls him a monster in their second force bond scene. I think this was a huge part for why his character went the way it did, without his mother there was even less reason for him to go light. There was still conflict in him because of Rey (this'll be in part two), but he was more selfish with her because he wasn't used to having someone to rely on or be close too, that and thinking he was responsible for his mothers dead spurred him to dark side. Which brings us to...

2. Rey. The force bond, and the Throne room scene with Snoke. This is my favourite scene in TLj, hands down. Not just because of BAMF Rey and Kylo fighting together, but because it was a pivotal scene for Kylo's character as a whole. He did genuinely come to care for Rey because she sympathised with him and how Luke "attacked" him, and offered comfort in a time he was feeling conflicted (see point 1). It's unfortunate that Kylo doesn't know how to properly human, because of his exposure to the dark side and how it made his mind selfish and warped his morality until it wasn't an excuse anymore. Then Snoke pulls his vision shenanigans and reveals his part in the bond, and it all goes to poop. Forget Reylo, it can be romantic or non romantic, it still works.

When he touches hands with Rey, he sees her turn to the dark for him, and for her vice versa. This gives him hope, that he won't be alone anymore on the dark. The fellow force user he has been communing with and sympathising with him, will let go of the past and see his side of things, and join him! Even if she is just a scavenger, and "nothing", she "isn't" to him. He is still conflicted because of reasons, she calls him "Ben" and I think this reminds him of his mother and the light.

I mean, they have so much in common! With the dead parents, and the killing the past, and the force! For sure she will follow him, the touching hand vision can't lie! (End sarcasm).

Everything up until the throne room allies with this view, she offers him HER hand, she feels for him and is angry at Luke, and she comes herself to the supremacy to see him.

He is sure she will renounce the light and join him after she sees the resistance failing, and since his mother isn't part of it anymore because of death thoughts, he doesn't care about them. Rey thinks the opposite.

Then the throne room happens and Snoke reveals his schemes. Kylo goes from being conflicted to being "sure" in his path and ideology. And his true enemy; his mentor, not Rey.

There is a reason the Camera cuts to him after Snoke reveals he was responsible for the force bond; he tenses and you can see the anger in his eyes as he looks at Snoke. I think this is when he starts covering it by aiming it at Rey and hiding his thoughts. Snoke has sealed his death; this reveal is the straw that broke the camels back for Kylo. His hope can't be wrong, he will kill his mentor and try to turn Rey to the dark. He still has it.

He kills Snoke and fights the guards alongside Rey; again he shows his care for her by checking up on her a few times in the battle. She impresses him and saves his life by throwing him Luke's sabre.

The battle ends and he turns to her. The moment has come. She must turn. Must.

He outlines his views of "letting the past die" (a main theme of the film and Disneys approach to Star Wars) and offers her his hand. He is angry when she can't let go of the past and shows it, but speaks softly to her afterwards, and says she means something to him when she comes from nothing. I think you can make a case that this is Syth like emotional manipulation, but he believes he is doing her a favour by making her let go harshly and look forward. It's a pivotal part for her character as well as his. And highlights and contrasts they won't be able to be on the same side, unless of a miracle in IX.

Rey is distraught and cries that Ben Solo is seemingly really gone.

He tries to make the offer again, his hope is splintering but the last few shreds of conflict are gone. If she won't join him, she will have to die.

He doesn't want that. At all.

His plea of a sad and hoarse "please", is his last ditch effort to get her to see his side so she won't have to die. He is that desperate enough.

Then she reaches for Luke's sabre and his hope dies. His heart hardens and he becomes resolute to follow through his darkness.

We'd. This took a lot out of me I might write another post analysing the force bond and his character throughout that. But that'll have to be later.

(Btw the last look they shared killed me.)

 

There might be someone else who could help Ben...

Hayden! Perhaps Vader himself could talk some sense into his grandson?

 

That would be great. Vader always wanted to be the emperor himself. Now his grandson is the new leader of the FO. So Vader/Anakin has to visit him.

 

No reason why not after Yoda’s appearance.

 

I’m totally on board with Hayden making a return and Vader/Anakin influencing Ben to some extent, but I think everyone already knows where my thoughts lie on this matter from over in my earlier post about the Force ghosts and The Awakening.

 

Jar Jar Binks should make an appearance and convince him. He will be so annoying and keep yelling "Meesa think dark side bad for you Ben Han Solo son!" Until Kylo breaks and gets redeemed simply to not hear him anymore.

On a serious note, I really do think he cared for Rey. She was the first non-rude and nice person in a long time to really show any empathy or sympathy for him.

 

Great next Kylo will be singing Love song For a Vampire to Rey as she lays in his arms

 

Or the masterpiece "Anaconda" by Nicki Minaj!

I don't ship Reylo, but the force bond doesn't have to be read as romantic to highlight Kylo as a character.

I think he cared for Rey. But he's been so warped by the dark side, he never learned what a healthy relationship/friendship/acquaintances was like.

 

I found it a bit ironic Kylo talking about letting the past die.While Kylo as a personality was born because of the past and is still affected and holding on to it.Why else kill his father and now trying to kill Luke who admitted to him that he failed him.Just like his grandfather he is a victim of the past and fears it...but does not realize this.If he where really to let go he would have forgiven his father...mom..and Luke.Instead he now tries to persuade himself that he has let go of it through founding strenght and resolution after the force connection with Rey and killing of Snoke.Luke and others who now comes in the way is probably seen as wanting to pull the insecure and disillusioned Ben back which Kylo resents and hates.Just my two cents ...

 

A fundamental part of Kylo's characterisation in TlJ, is that he thinks his mother is dead. He did remove his hands offthe trigger when he had it aimed at her, and someone else shot the glass of the main rebel deck out. He couldn't kill her by his own hand.

This drives him further into the dark, as since his mother was a huge "tie to the light" for him.

He thinks that "killing" the past, means literal killing. He also wants to be dark! So forgiveness and pouring out your emotions is a "hippy" light side thing.

He hates Ben Solo and Luke equally methinks.

 

He is effed up either way due to past issues which still have hold on him...freudian style kind of...lol

 

Kyle, Mah boi, you've done facked up.

Kylo is my fave character, post TLJ. Pre TFA, it was Finn.

Just Adam's great acting, he had best dialogue in film and character arc, and Kylo actually had a chance to have conversations with someone who wasn't actively looking to make him feel like sh*t.

Yes he is prob 100% dark side post TLJ and has a lot of flaws. But he does have humanity too, which is important as hell for a villain to have.

 

Mark Hamill "There's romantic tension between Rey and my naughty nephew, girls like the bad boys"

 

Shirtless scene! The eight pack hypnotised her!

He also indirectly calls Kylo a "shoplifter". I love it.

Interesting to know he doesn't know what's gonna happen.

 

Does Kylo know that his mother is still alive at the end of this movie? Maybe this is the key for his redemption (yeah, I still have hopes for that). As soon as he learns about the truth...

Either way bring on the new and more powerful Supreme Leader, @NinjaRen ehm I mean Kylo Ren. #Renperor

 

No one gives him the memo. Not even Luke in their duel.

The last bit of the film sums up where his character is. Alone and kneeling on a cold stone floor having just been pushed away by Rey.

 

Don't forget the dices! Haha! But he isn't really alone, there is still his connection to Rey even though Snoke is dead.

 

It's left ambiguous if they are still really connected. Rey shuts the Falcons door after giving him a disappointed look, and he flinches slightly.

They also don't connect again after the hand holding moment, and before he picks up the dice (which Luke gave to Leia). So maybe Luke or Snoke cut it off? And Luk intended the dice to be a brief connector between them (it disappears after Rey leaves in the falcon).

 

It's definitely interesting how their relationship will go on. Rey is the only hope to redeem Kylo Ren. I think Kylo und Rey know this too.

 

Hi there. This is my second post on this board and still getting used to the site. Loads of good insight about kylo ren in this thread.

I personally think that there is a clear intention of linking Kylo and Rey romantically in this trilogy. The intensity of all their exchanges in both movies is a good indication of that. I’m not sure where the story can go with it, as the battle between good and evil would get complicated with sexual attraction in the midst. Kylo’s redemption appears to be the only acceptable solution to this problem, and even if that happened, a death a la Darth Veider (rather than a wedding between a heroine and a parricide ) would be the most fitting ending for a family movie franchise like this.

I also have this niggling feeling that, with Leia and Luke gone and finn distracted by new girl rose, the charismatic Poe is going to become closer to Rey and be another source of angst for kylo to add to the list. Raw human motives such as love, friendship, envy and ambition, rather than empty heroicity and duty calls, are what give characters the kind of agency that truly satisfies the audience.