Official Episode VIII - Kylo Ren Discussion Thread

In TFA, we had Leia saying it was Snoke that seduced their son. She says in the novelization, I believe (but not in the movie) that Snoke was there "from the beginning," although apparently she was not aware of what was going on until later.

In TLJ, all we have is Luke saying that what he saw in Ben that scared him was the evil/corruption that Snoke had already put there (sorry, I don't remember the exact words). EDIT: Luke says, "I saw darkness. I’d sensed it building in him. I’d seen it in moments during his training. But then I looked inside, and it was beyond what I ever imagined. Snoke had already turned his heart. He would bring destruction, and pain, and death, and the end of everything I love because of what he will become."

There are also hints in books, such as Aftermath: Empire's End, that suggest that there was a dark force preying on baby Ben in the womb. Snoke? Just the Dark Side? (I'll try to dig this up if you want to see it but I don't have it to hand.)

But there is a lot to infer from the movies. We know that Ben feels that Han would have disappointed Rey as a father-figure. We know that Leia thinks she never should have sent Ben away. We know that Ben thinks Luke was trying to kill him, which is logical enough. Adam Driver says Ben feels as though he's been abandoned, and it possible to see how Ben might feel he'd been left in the clutches of an abuser he both slavishly adores and hates by every single member of his family. And the last one does worse by betraying and attempting to kill him when he's unarmed in his sleep (from Ben's POV). I mean, I don't know about you, but I wouldn't stick around to ask too many questions either in his shoes.

We still don't know exactly what happened at Luke's temple except that after he felt threatened, Ben destroyed it by burning. We know some of the 12 students died, and some he took with him. Did Ben kill the others? Maybe. It seems likely, even, but we have no information and Luke doesn't seem to either.

However, as far as finding out, I'm hoping that in IX we can find out about Ben's past--or at least more about what happened at Luke's temple--via the kind of flashbacks we had in TLJ or straight-up exposition by Ben or Force ghost Luke.

 

Thanks for the responses, it is as I thought that we don't actually get a whole lot of information but are left to infer a lot of what happened. I suppose there is juxtaposition with Rey who was literally abandoned, but her stoicism in the face of her literal abandonment (compared to Kylo's supposed/felt abandonment) does not do his (Kylo's) character any favours. I feel we really need more information on how he has been manipulated (as you mention, potentially from birth) to really get into the heart of the character.

 

Well, I said that assuming he had felt her being alive. Otherwise, you're right.

 

Read Bloodlines and after the empire. More overview on Leia and Kylo's relationship and some of Snoke's effects on him.

Yeah. No excuses for him. But dude has been through some sh*t.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 18, 2017 ---

I don't think he did. He still had Snoke malware in his brain, fudging it up


And I know I'm right about Hux and the parrot.

 

the juxtaposition is definitely intentional. for all intents and purposes, Ben should have been a privileged child of Republic heroes and Rey was an abandoned orphan of two drunks. the truth is they both feel discarded and lonely. but they've fallen on different paths: he's been corrupted by Darkness, and she (as Snokie-poke said), is the Light that his risen to meet him.

somewhere between them is balance and hopefully they will find it in ix.

 

Why do people keep calling that an eight-pack? That's neither an eight- nor a six pack...

I really hope the students Ben took with him are still around (=> Knights of Ren). We could learn much more about Luke's Jedi temple by the their point of view. If the KOR are Luke's students, then EPIX should really focus on them. Maybe make one of them the main antagonist beside Kylo Ren of course.

 

I think smooth jazz will bring them together. It'll soothe their souls, and Kylo's dark side.

On a serious note, the jutaxpositon campaign be seen with the throne room scene and how they both hope the other will turn. Rey, for having just been forced to admit the truth of her parents and let down by failing to turn Ben, chooses selflessness and light, while Kylo, in the haze of his "kill the past raging" and having just killed his abuser (and is desperately gas lighting Rey to try to convince her to join him), chooses selfishness and dark.

They are contrasts of eachother except their intention and connection throughout TLJ; a genuine shared closeness thanks to an artificial force bond and what they can relate to in eachother, and them both wanting to turn the other to their side.

 

you're kidding, right?

 

Oh boy. Oh boy. Oh boy. A new convert to the cult of the 8 pack!

It's a reference to this:

Ditto for KOR, I wanna meet Kylo Ren's bad boy troop!

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 18, 2017 ---

Don't worry.
I have linked the holy video.

 

people need to stop using the phrase gas-lighting if they don't know what it means ~ hahahaha
he's not gas-lighting her. not on any level.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 18, 2017 ---

he's kidding. it's just hilarious.

 

I'm on this forum for much longer than you, of course I know this reference. I breathe and live Kylo Ren, but I hate stuff like this.

 

I looked it up, and I was wrong about its definition. Sorry. Thought it was being harsh to someone and then comforting them. Classic abuse tactic.

Well he still does manipulate her to an extent. He's never been in a healthy relationship before, friendship or romance or whatever.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 18, 2017 ---

Ah okay. Each to their own. Just watch this then and think of Hux. Can't go wrong with British humour.

 

Just wondering if Kylo will use this helmet again in IX. He looks so badass with that on and the cape.

 

You know something...Rey is the protagonist plot device, but is NOT the main character of this trilogy. It's Kylo Ren.

Ben Solo's conflict with Luke Skywalker IS the essence of the movie. Ben is the ONLY one to have character development. And he is a Skywalker, in the Skywalker saga.

So that's my stance: The main character of the new trilogy is Ben Solo.

 

I don't think so. His smashing of it was symbolic-destroying a "mask" he was using to obscure his face and feelings by wearing it. Especially after Snoke called him a child in one.

He did look cool in it tho.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 18, 2017 ---

He is deff Kylo Ren atm, so maybe it's the story of Kylo Ren becoming Ben Solo again.

TLJ was great for character development. Everyone got some.

 

Yeah. I like that. Also curious about his outfit now that he is the Supreme Leader. Will he wears somthing fancy like Snoke or he will keep the same style?

 

I think I get what Andy Serkis was saying about Snoke's hatred. The more hate Kylo expresses the more his appearance changes. By the end of TLJ he for sure was showing more change in his face. Was more darkened or something.

 

He'll go shirtless and dazzle his enemies with the 8 pack, or copy Snoke and wear his golden robe and slippers.

He'll say "hah, you old goat. Who's the fabulous one now" and laugh. Hux will be hiding somewhere, from this abomination.

But probably, it'll be plain, generic, and black. Fitting his character, alignment, and depressed as hell mindset.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 19, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 19, 2017 ---

I think more worn and bedraggled than anything. Like the events of TLJ were wearing him down.

 

he already looks like hell compared to TFA. : o p

 

In TFA he just killed his father. In TLJ he "lost" his mother, got his affection for someone manipulated and the bond between them revealed as a mere ploy by his abusive master (who'd already abused him earlier after he was reeling from killing Han), got rejected by the last person he cared about, got trolled by the uncle he hated and made to look like a buffoon in front of his entire new army, and finally, got to look into the eyes of said person who rejected him before she shut the door on him.