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The Force Belongs to Us: THE LAST JEDI’s Beautiful Refocusing of Star Wars

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by DailyPlunge, Dec 18, 2017.

  1. KyloRen1981

    KyloRen1981 Rebel Commander

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    Let's stay calm, ok? First of all, I think we have different interpretations of this very subjective thing. Why not just leave it at that? Secondly, hear someone out before jumping to conclusions. We've only just begun speaking and I feel like you've tried putting words in my mouth a few times already. So, to clarify, I never implied Rey would *buy* a ship and leave or something. But since there was an entire field of space ships that were apparently ready to fly, that she didn't feel was currently with their rightful owner, and since she knew before she even got in the ships that she could fly them, she could have left any time she wanted.
     
  2. thrawn_lives

    thrawn_lives Clone Commander

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    And Anakin couldn't? Why not? Tatooine had a vibrant spaceport and he worked at a junkyard. He was even able to make a pod races in his copious chill time.
     
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  3. Malus Dagoth

    Malus Dagoth Rebelscum

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    I'm saying that her ability to fight against some street thugs and a wounded man is entirely explainable. Her ability against some of the deadliest combatants in the First Order is questionable without cultivating abilities that a duelist would have. That's the kicker. I don't know why you find that so ridiculous when even Luke went to the trouble of improving his fighting skills.

    If I was an actual sexist, I would have had a problem with the copious amounts of female Jedi that have existed for decades prior to Rey even showing up on the silver screen.
     
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  4. KyloRen1981

    KyloRen1981 Rebel Commander

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    ooookay. Now I get what your perspective is centered around. That explains so much.

    Adieu.
     
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  5. thrawn_lives

    thrawn_lives Clone Commander

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    Luke was never trained on screen. Rey wasn't either, but she was clearly a good fighter to live safely alone as an orphan child on Jakku. She probably was trained by someone. Like Luke, it will probably be explained in a comic. But her staff skills where real. And she continues using the staff style when fighting the imperials.

    At least in The Last Jedi we see Ray training on a mountain. Connecting to the force, plus her already masterful use of the staff was a potent combination.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 18, 2017 ---
    And that limited imagination explains even more.
     
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  6. Malus Dagoth

    Malus Dagoth Rebelscum

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    Yeah, you can see him practicing physical conditioning onscreen. It implies this rather directly. I'm sure you wanted subject the audience to that ENTIRE training period but that's how it's traditionally conveyed. Besides, for some inexplicable reason, they were going to show actual training with a lightsaber but they cut that. Probably set one of the worst precedents for this trilogy.

    I'm sorry but a staff style isn't even remotely transferable to a sword-styled weapon. Why do you think people thought it would have been cool for her to have a saberstaff instead? Because it would have made sense. This point is made even more awkward by the fact that the Praetorians all had weapons that suited their unique style. By this logic, Rey was at even more of a disadvantage.
     
  7. cctru

    cctru Rebel Trooper

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    [​IMG]

    If they really don't explain how Rey is so strong,
    than they completely shi*ting on everything from 6 movies before.
     
  8. thrawn_lives

    thrawn_lives Clone Commander

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    If I had to place a bet on a fight between the strongest force user Luke had ever seen that had survived one of the harshest environments without any support system vs ESB Luke who trained for days at most, I know who I'd bet on.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 18, 2017 ---
    I didn't mean handstands. I meant dueling. Sorry I should have clarified. Rey was pretty good at jumping and climbing without training.
     
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  9. Malus Dagoth

    Malus Dagoth Rebelscum

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    You want to know what happened to TESB Luke when he ran off early? He ended up being predicatably outmatched and outmaneuvered which ended up costing him his hand. That's a pretty grievous injury. Not to mention the psychological burden of knowing the guy who did the deed was your biological father this whole time. In summary, he got blasted up.

    EDIT: In fact, there's another psychological element to Luke's duel here. Luke realizes that Vader's intent was to turn him to the Emperor's cause, not kill him. Meaning that if he were any other opponent, he could have killed him at any time with what he had. That is yet another crushing and humbling realization.

    How does Rey do when she receives no formal training with a use of a lightsaber that would give her a chance to stand on her own against some of the deadliest melee combatants in the galaxy who are outfitted with weapons that perfectly complement their respective styles? She does perfectly fine with no real significant injury to speak of. Doesn't even lose a limb. Hell, Kylo Ren (i.e. the only one who is even remotely prepared for this kind of confrontation) comes closer to getting killed by the Praetorian with the whipstaff than she does. Rey doesn't even use any basic Force abilities to subvert her opponents' footing or distract them in order to even the playing field despite supposedly being more powerful in the Force. She just makes it...inexplicably. Her opponents aren't even wounded like Kylo Ren was in their first confrontation on Starkiller Base.

    If she actually suffered something in the way of noticeable wounds, I may have been worried as a member of the audience and found the resiliency she's built up as remarkable in the face of being outmatched and outnumbered. However, she just powers through like she had the skill the whole time which she clearly doesn't. Otherwise, she wouldn't have taken the ancient Jedi texts. Think about that. Instead of having a compelling mentor/student relationship, she's going to learn everything from a book. Yawn.
     
    #89 Malus Dagoth, Dec 18, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
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  10. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Thanks for sharing mate. Great read and eloquently says what I have had bouncing around in my head since the premiere.
     
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  11. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    You're welcome. Back to the work grind for me. I'll probably start posting more in January when the fire dies down.
     
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  12. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I’m going to wait for the trolls to leave before I engage in proper debates. Have a nice Christmas.
     
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  13. greenbalrog

    greenbalrog Rebel Official

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    Thanks for sharing that article, it was a good read.

    So, if the central message is that you don't need to come from a special cradle to achieve big, or whatever you want or desire, which is all good and all, I would agree with the ones who say that this is not really new in the Star Wars universe. Why? Because not every powerful Jedi/Sith, other force wielder, or hero (Han, countless other Rebellion leaders) of the movies, was of any "special" bloodline as far as I understand. Take Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda, Palpatine, and literaly what seemed like hundreds of Jedi which did seem pretty "random people" to me, or at least how I interpreted. I think we may be reading too much over this. That, or the authors have made too much of a big deal out of that.

    So, Rey may be just a kid with incredible force wielding abilities, or she may not. As far as I'm concerned, and due to the amount of illusion and deception that goes on this movie, we could even not have been told the truth. So, we're to get Kylo's word of who's Rey's parents were/are? Not that it's fundamental that they need to be special or known, but because the film(s) establishes that as a central question to be answered, with all that dark-side place in the island scene going on, and all. So, it's natural that people still speculate. I don't appreciate JJ's mystery box style myself, but I feel we were left with some of this in episode VIII as well: Is Snoke really dead, or was that just an illusion to complete Kylo's training and lure Luke to the fight (Snoke's true and only enemy as it seems, if Snoke isn't a Sith, he sure seems like one with all that hate for the last jedi and all)? Are Rey's parents really not that important? And if not, then why all the fuss and build up? Again, if the idea was to convey the message that Rey didn't need to be related with anyone we know, it took them 2 movies just to say that?


    Now, and since you quote the article, I take the opportunity to ask my fellow Star Wars fans about one question one of the commenters asks on the article that I also had trouble with, and as I see it is quite central to the filme, and probably the key aspect over the debate about Luke Skywalker's entire plot arc in the movie.

    The commentator (signed Brain) asks:

    I only watched the film once, and I'm eager to watch it again, but this also didn't sit well with me. So, Ben was probably already under a huge influence from Snoke, and who knows what he would have done. And, apparently, Luke felt great evil in Ben and decided to kill him as a pre-emptive action. After having turned Darth Vader from the dark-side, Luke lost hope on his sister's son? Was it all really just a moment of weakness and feeling afraid of losing all he fought for (then new Jedi order)? That made him attack his nephew?

    Luke, the saga's top hero, was, apparently, directly or undirectly responsible for a lot of what happened (mostly bad) in these two new trilogy movies. I think we should all recongnize that this could not sit well with many Star Wars fans. It's not a big problem for me. I just think that this could have been dealt with more carefuly.

    I liked the movie. I'm just taking this opportunity to raise and discuss these issues with others. Thanks for reading.
     
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  14. srg

    srg Force Attuned

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    It's obvious that it has never been like you have to be Skywalker to be someone (unless you treat Star Wars very selectively). Not sure why is that supposed to be a big deal now. I don't want to be beaten over the head with this notion to the point of diminishing the Skywalkers (I'm not saying that this exactly is happening in this trilogy). I understand that the purpose of VII-IX is to segue out of the Skywalker storyline and I'm fine with it. Perhaps it's time. But I don't want the final message to be "it's good we're getting rid of them, we're better off that way," which is one of the reasons I don't want to see Kylo die a villain. "Unfairness" in the fact that the story is mainly about Skywalkers is something I've never took away from Star Wars. Never crossed my mind. And I'd say that to see unfairness there is a bad way of looking at it IMO.
     
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  15. BespinMinersUnion1138

    BespinMinersUnion1138 Force Sensitive

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    It’s just fanboys who can’t get it out of their heads that the movie they dreamed about is not the movie they got. The Skywalker saga is coming to an end. Every dynasty must end at some point. Perhaps there will be a new one someday. But this one is ending. Star Wars is moving beyond the Skywalkers. And that is fantastic. I love the Skywalker saga but it can’t go on forever. Let go of the entitlement.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 18, 2017 ---
    Look at the Skywalkers as a dynastic family. Lucasfilm is writing an entire history of that galaxy. The Skywalkers are just one dynastic bloodline. The saga is moving beyond Lucas’ world-building. That scares many people.
     
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  16. srg

    srg Force Attuned

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    I know. As I said, I'm fine with moving past them. Just don't want their chapter to end on a bad note (which could mean various things for different people, I guess).
     
  17. Malus Dagoth

    Malus Dagoth Rebelscum

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    When were the Skywalkers a line of hereditary rulers? The only one who has ever "ruled" over anything was Leia and that was as an Organa, not a Skywalker.
     
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  18. Blastaar

    Blastaar Rebel General

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    he was special, but he still had to work to get strong and even then, never realized his potential. He ended the trilogy as a crispy man who had no remaining limbs. The point is, nobody, no blood line was every special because of who they were. Even in the case of space jesus (which was such a stupid and lazy idea.).
     
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  19. Malus Dagoth

    Malus Dagoth Rebelscum

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    Which is made all the more ridiculous by the fact that the ST has to pretend it had any relevance to begin with in order to have its meta narrative make sense.
     
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  20. HAL'sgal

    HAL'sgal Force Sensitive

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    Getting back to the premise of the blog article, I disagree that the refocus is that big of a deal, or even desirable from the point of view of the franchise. I don't think that one has to be a Skywalker to be a hero, a Jedi or a leader. Does anyone, really, beside the writer of this post ? In the 21st century, we are literally raised on the thought that everyone has the potential. This is NOT NEWS. In scifi, it has not been news since Ripley in Alien, and that was a loooong time ago.

    But it's not what fairy tales are made of, either, and Star Wars certainly is a fairy tale.

    Hence, the extreme popularity of Game of Thrones and for those that like their hereditary scheming a bit better disguised, Downtown Abbey. Let's not forget LOTR. These are blockbuster shows for a reason. The endless fascination with the British Royal Family, past present and future. The huge interest in Disney Princesses and their outfits at WDW. It's great to see that Star Wars has a new hero who is from the unwashed masses, but what the masses want is to NOT BE part of the masses. And while TLJ may be wildly successful, it'd probably be more so if it continued the fairy tale. At any rate, I'll bet that Princess Leia's costume will outsell Rey's for decades to come.

    And before anyone tries to impugn my character- I have BOTH. :)
     
    #100 HAL'sgal, Dec 18, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
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