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The Force in Rogue One

Discussion in 'Rogue One' started by Imperial Purple, Dec 20, 2016.

  1. Imperial Purple

    Imperial Purple Rebelscum

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    One great thing about Star Wars is that throughout the universe's manifestations in different media (cartoons, films, comics, novels, etc.), we are treated to a variety of interpretations of the Force. I mean to say, how we as an audience interpret the Force, as well as how the characters in the stories interpret it.

    One thing that struck me after viewing Rogue One -- cannot believe this did not hit me earlier during the trailers -- was the liberal use of Jyn saying, “May the Force be with us.” I never really thought of the concept of the Force being introduced to the Rebel Alliance before Luke joined their ranks. Jyn’s message to her team is an adaptation of Obi-Wan Kenobi’s aphorism told to Luke’s at the end of Episode IV when Obi-Wan speaks to Luke in the X-Wing cockpit: "May the Force be with you." It is weird to think that the Force was with the Rebels even before Luke came into the picture.

    But on to what I really want to say in this forum thread....

    First, I would like to draw a correlation between the Force and the Matrix. Because. Second, I would like to provide a few examples of how the Force guides our heroes to successfully achieve their mission to steal the Death Star plans.

    In The Matrix Reloaded, the protagonists doubt their actions after speaking with the Merovingian, who is unwilling to reveal the location of his key maker. Suddenly, a new ally, the Frenchman’s wife Persephone, offers them an opportunity to meet with the key maker, because her strategy in the Matrix is to play against her husband.

    Morpheus: Are you certain the Oracle didn't say anything else?
    Neo: Yes.
    Trinity: Maybe we did something wrong.
    Neo: Or didn't do something.
    Morpheus: No, what happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way.
    Neo: How do you know?
    Morpheus: We are still alive.​

    I cannot help but to think of this -- you may call it providence -- in the context of Rogue One.

    Our heroes in Rogue One endure so much. Specifically, Jyn goes through a lot -- she is physically challenged as she races from planet to planet, and she is also mentally challenged with the death of her mother and then father. She keeps going and never gives up. The same goes with her teammates. For them there is no other choice.

    Think about it. There is only one ending to the story. We already know the ultimate outcome, because we have read the opening crawl to Episode IV and we have seen Princess Leia record her message to Obi-Wan Kenobi aboard the Tantive IV. Rogue One could never escape the fact that it is a prequel. The story could have unraveled a number of ways, but all of these alternate stories would have come to the same conclusion.

    Think back to the opening sequence of Rogue One before we see the main title card. Now ask yourself, “Would this story have happened as it did if Saw hadn't found young Jyn hiding in the rocks in the cave on Lah'mu...or, if our rag tag assortment of heroes had not converged at Saw’s fort on Jedha?”

    Perhaps not, but rest assured that John Knoll, Gary Whitta, Chris Weitz, and Tony Gilroy all racked their brains as to the best way to tell this story.

    Storytelling and mythmaking in Rogue One is best represented in its unconventional interpretation of the Force. There are no Jedi proper in this film, for one, and the Force serves as a character in some sense. It is used as a device to propel characters through the story. Think of the Force as a storytelling device much like the Journal of the Whills was a storytelling device in those early story treatments of Star Wars by George Lucas in the early 1970s. The Force in Rogue One is what brings our heroes together, and it is what seems to guide them to success and to a new hope, despite the Empire and certain Rebels seemingly conspiring against them.

    There are a few key scenes in Rogue One where the Force seems to be at work:
    1. “Today of all days...." Saw surmises something was meant to be as he receives a message from his friend Galen on the same day that Jyn, Galen's daughter, arrives. That is not to mention the Imperial defectors, the Rebel Alliance members, and the Guardians of the Whills, who assemble and escape the planet before Jedha is destroyed by the Death Star. Saw Gerrera acts a little superstitious in this scene, not in the same sense that Han Solo originally viewed the Force, but because Saw has been waiting for this moment to happen. He knows he's done his job, so he is willing to stay behind, sacrificing himself.
    2. "Jyn's path is clear.” This is what Chirrut, who is blind, says to his pal Baze when he decides to follow Jyn through the darkness on Eadu in search of her father. This happens after the scene where Chirrut comments on the Force surrounding Cassian. His air is one of a murderer. This is interesting because it casts Chirrut as seeing the Force and how life moves around him and others. On Jedha we are introduced to Chirrut and his pal Baze, who are both Guardians of the Whills. Chirrut is a Force-devotee, one who believes in the Force, but cannot necessarily practice using it. A similar idea was first introduced to us in The Force Awakens with the character Lor San Tekka, who follows the Church of the Force and also is not Force-sensitive. I guess Chirrut cannot manipulate the Force per se, but he can see it and use it to his advantage. Chirrut’s mantra goes, "I'm one with the Force. The Force is with me." He repeatedly says this to concentrate on the task at hand; it helps him mediate and to overcome his blindness. (Also, this is similar to how Neo can see the Matrix code and use it to his advantage.)
    3. “The Force Theme” score. During the scene on Yavin IV when our team leaves for Scarif, Michael Giacchino chooses to underscore the moment with the beginning notes to John Williams' Force Theme. What an odd moment to use that motif, you say! Originally, this motif can be heard at the beginning of Episode IV when Princess Leia gives R2-D2 the Death Star plans; then we hear it as Luke gazes at Tatooine's binary sunset; and then we hear it reprised when Obi-Wan Kenobi introduces himself to Luke. In Rogue One, it is fitting to hear the motif take shape and mature just as our band of misfit heroes agree to take on this dangerous, suicidal mission to Scarif. Here the motif symbolizes what was meant to be and how all the pieces fell into place in order for the mission to begin.
    In conclusion, the mission is successful because Jyn’s team and the Rebel Alliance believe in her call for action. They believe in the Rebel Alliance. They all know stealing the Death Star plans is what needs to happen and they will do whatever it takes. The galaxy's future and freedom from the Empire depend on them. To me this is best exemplified during the heart pounding scene at the end of Rogue One when Darth Vader cuts down the Rebels trying to prevent the optical disc storing the Death Star plans from being passed on to the Tantive IV. This scene played out like a relay race where the baton is passed from one willing runner to the next, each of them giving his all for the team.

    Thus the Death Star plans inevitably reach the hands of Princess Leia, who glows radiantly in a white, veiled robe almost like an angel. "Are you an angel?" Anakin said to Padme as he slaved away in Watto's junk shop. Freedom. Providence. It exudes the galaxy.

    “What happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way.”
     
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  2. DrewDeLand

    DrewDeLand Rebel Trooper

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    I believe for a fact that Chirrut is force sensitive.
     
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  3. Bosc

    Bosc Force Attuned
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    Your post goes way more into depth than I'm able to right now (still working on grad school stuff, even at this late date), but I just wanted to chime in with my understanding of "may the Force be with you." We see how how some non-Force-users treat the Force; as a sort of religion. I suppose nobody could blame them. But beyond that, I've always likened it to saying "(God) bless you" when someone sneezes. Or even, "good luck." It's an expression of good fortune.

    Interestingly, the Rebels say it and the Imperials don't (as far as we know). In the Empire the Jedi were outlawed, so it would make sense for those against the Empire to pick up that expression; even if just as simple defiance.

    Just my two cents.

    (Now back to research project...)
     
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  4. Force238

    Force238 Rebel Commander

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    In ANH, didn't one of the rebel general said "May the Force be with you" to the pilots before they headed out to attack the Death Star? I believe Han said that to Luke also before he and Chewie left (temporarily it turned out).
     
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  5. Choose Light

    Choose Light Jedi General

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    It's interesting to me that so much of what gets the story moving happens on Jedha--the holy city where the Temple of the Whills is (or was) and where Chirrut remains, calling, "May the Force of others be with you." And then there's his prayer/chant/mantra, which is the means by which he accomplishes so much for the mission.

    Another point is that in Catalyst, Lyra is FS and admires the Jedi--an attitude that I'm sure her daughter would have picked up on. The girl who's admonished to trust in the Force is the one who successfully transmits the plans....

    I'm probably forgetting something, but there's a great deal of faith in the Force already at work before any Jedi come into the picture in ANH.
     
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  6. Imperial Purple

    Imperial Purple Rebelscum

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    I am planning on opening my copy of Catalyst soon. Couldn't get around to it before the seeing Rogue One in theaters...had to finish reading Neal Stephenson's epic Seveneves!
     
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  7. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
    1030th General **** (Mod)

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    yes to both. it's not just a Luke thing.

    i guess i need to read Catalyst now ~ how interesting about Lyra and how it's a wonderful non-starter in R1 ~ i really like that.
     
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  8. Imperial Purple

    Imperial Purple Rebelscum

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    I guess for the Rebels, yes. Obi Wan Kenobi said in Epiode IV there is no such thing as luck. From the prequels, which provide the foundation for his regrets, causality is life. Choices inform outcomes...not luck.

    While watching Episode IV tonight, I noticed that the musical cue that plays when Obi Wan Kenobi asks Luke to join him on a trip to Mos Eisly is a theme that is reprised in R1. I think it's"Jyn's Path is Clear".
     
    #8 Imperial Purple, Dec 24, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2016
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  9. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Yeah I did as well, he had strong faith in it.
     
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  10. DarthLuketheWise

    DarthLuketheWise Rebelscum

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    And as mentioned elsewhere, he could sense the presence of the crystal around Jyn's neck before she spoke or even approached him!
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 25, 2016, Original Post Date: Dec 25, 2016 ---
    Well it was used among Mon Mothma and Bail Organa, leaders of the Rebel Alliance, long before Luke came on the scene. I think this is because of their affiliation, or at least Bail's, with the Jedi (Obi Wan for certain) before Order 66. With the events of ROTS, the death of their friend Padme and what Bail knew of his adopted daughter Leia and Obi Wan and Yoda in hiding, I just think it was something they continued to say and practice during what were very dark times.
     
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  11. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Good point, Jyn was sure surprised by that.
     
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  12. Bargwill Tomder

    Bargwill Tomder Rebel Commander

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    Personally, I don't really understand what separates a force-sensitive like Chirrut from a Jedi. He clearly uses the force:

    1) Ducking and dodging blaster bolts
    2) Seeing where to attack stormtroopers
    3) Guiding his bow to shoot down the tie which blows up the base

    And of course sensing Jyn's necklace. I say he is "using the force" because that is exactly what Luke did when he had the blast shield on in his Jedi training.

    I mean, does anyone believe that Chirrut couldn't use a lightsaber? He's not an official Jedi obviously, but he might as well be in my opinion.
     
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  13. daffy72

    daffy72 Force Sensitive

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    They are saying that the Order they are part of uses both light and dark side aspects of the force. Blaze for example, is fueled by his anger. Chirrut COULD of been a Jedi but maybe he doesn't want to? He has more ability in the force then Leia but less then Ashoka when she first showed up in the Clone Wars. I love seeing other groups besides Jedi using the force. (To me) it seems like the Guardians of the Whills have more in common with Bendu of Rebels then the Jedi Order.

    All force users are not Jedi. All Jedi are force users. It's just one religious/ philosophical path.
     
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  14. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    I believe Chirrut has the same Force sensitivity as Jyn's mother Lyra had. He can sense it, he can sense it's movements (necklace, Cassian's intentions), but he cannot do anything with it. All martial arts stuff is a result of him honing his skills and other senses to perfection, they have even showed it in the film, when he listens to stormtroopers.

    And when it comes to Master Switch scene, I don't think he uses the Force at all - such is his fate in it, that the Force uses him. His mastery in martial arts, his seemingly supernatural abilities come from his will, persistence and, above all, faith.
     
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  15. Trevor

    Trevor Protector of the Jedi
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    See, I'm fully on board with this. It also comes to me that non-sensitives are aware of the Force and by even making the "MTFBWY" statement, it is a gesture of hope, something along the lines of "I'll pray for you."

    Even those that aren't sensitive to it, are aware that it's apparently a "thing" (or they believe that it is) based on the fact that there were these seemingly mystical "Jedi folks" that were around town and used it in the past, and apparently it's everywhere...so maybe with some luck, simple tricks, and nonsense, that the mystical Force may help them. Sure seems to me that it helped Chirrut as he walked somewhat calmly through a barrage of blaster fire to that control panel.

    The fact that Stormtroopers couldn't hit water with a rock at the beach probably didn't hurt either! :)
     
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  16. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    To add to this, because I got this question outside this forum. How did he manage to blast TIE fighter chasing X-Wing? Well, there are people in real life, pilots, mechanics and such, who can tell you a type of airplane just by hearing its engine. I am pretty sure a blind person who obviously honed his skills to perfection can tell a TIE scream apart from X-Wing. I mean, every SW fan can. :p
     
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  17. malakye88

    malakye88 Rebelscum

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    Agreed, and going further, Blind people in our society can do amazing things, the other senses they become much more attuned too. Derek Rabelo (the blind surfer), manages to surf by feeling and interacting with everything around him. You even make the connection between the waves and the force and how Chirrut thinks and feels.

    Instead of weaving through water, he's dodging lazer fire :D
     
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  18. daffy72

    daffy72 Force Sensitive

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    his lightbow is also something special apparently. Maybe its 'Force Attuned' or something.

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Light Savior

    Light Savior Force Attuned

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    I will said that the words that ALWAYS Chirrut mention:"The FORCE is with me and I'm with the FORCE" means something MORE powerful that "Let the FORCE be with you.".Is like he is "calling" the FORCE.The part when he was going(walking) to activate the switch he was saying those words and the bullets from the blasters don't touch him.Is like he was "calling" the FORCE to protect him.I LOVE and ENJOY this part.It was very emotional to me.There is MORE about the FORCE that MAYBE ALL of us did not know yet.My feelings...:).
     
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  20. Travcon

    Travcon Rebel Official

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    I think the "may the force be with _____" is sort of like the "Godspeed, ______" of the GFFA.
     
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