The "treatment of Luke"

I found the treatment of Luke and Rey in TLJ to be a huge disappointment because it signalled THE END of the Skywalker legacy. TFA had led many fans to believe that Luke was this generation's wise, old "Obi-wan" and we'd learn his long-lost daughter, Rey, would become the Future of the Jedi (and the SW franchise). Instead viewers were told Rey was a 'noboby' (until she became -- stifling gag reflex -- a Palatine) and Luke turned out to be a quirky, disillusioned hermit.

Which leads me to this comment by @kuatorises justifying Luke's treatment in TLJ:

I thought Dagobah was a pivitol moment for Luke in the OT. He 'attachment' to his friends was stronger than Yoda's somber, Jedi-like advice to stay put and finish his training.

Given how Luke bailed, I found it incredibly ironic that in TBoBF Ep6 he doubled-down on Yoda's advice when training Grogu. As much as I hated the hard choice Luke gave the little guy (How many of you were shouting at your TV screens 'WHY CAN'T HE HAVE BOTH???'), I realized Dave Filoni had provided the franchise with an important ret-con moment in Luke's evolution into the hermit we would later witness in TLJ.

Luke's insistence on following 'the old ways' is why his Jedi Academy ultimately failed. The pendulum of real history has a way of swinging one direction and then over-correcting the other way. Anakin's failure led the Jedi to become even more entrenched in their 'no attachments' philosophy. I suspect it will take Luke's failure for a new generation of Jedi to swing the pendulum back...into balance.

We all hoped back in the OT days, the 'Yoda' of the next generation would be Luke. Instead, I believe fans are being set up to learn it will be a Mandalorian Jedi, Grogu Djarin. Once he grows up, he will pave the way for a new Jedi approach that will incorporate the best of both the Mandalorian Way and the Jedi Way.

To each his own, I guess. But I would venture to bet that the end of Mandolorian S2:E8 has been replayed hundreds of thousands of times more than the end of TLJ. It's Luke's 'Vader Moment' and gives me and a lot of other hardcore SW fans goosebumps every single time we watch it.

 

It was rumored over a year ago the attachment question was one Lucasfilm was kicking around in regards to what they're going to do with Rey/Jedi Order going forward. I suspect they're going to move away from the "Jedi can't have relationship" lore that Lucas introduced. I don't know if that means Rey romance, but it could mean introducing that via other characters.

 

That's totally not TFA's fault or TLJ's problem.

TFA literally told us that Rey was left behind on Jakku by her parents. Then Maz has her accept that her parents are never coming back but she might find belonging with Luke instead.

We were told Luke walked away from everything because he blamed himself for his apprentice turning and destroying his Jedi academy. The traitor was Luke's nephew. No mention of Luke having a daughter. She would have been in the equation if everyone is so desperate to locate the elusive self punishing Luke.

There's zero chance her existence would not be known to Han if Luke had a daughter and no need for him to not mention it.

No mention of Luke having a greater priority than his busted academy - a long lost daughter. Come on.

And Luke knowingly leaving his daughter on Jakku, in slavery? What?

Rey's relationship with Luke is purely wishful thinking on the part of some fans. At best it was left hanging somewhat by TFA in tacit acknowledgement that some fans would hotly anticipate her relationship with anyone and everyone in the saga regardless.

 

I never said it was. I said Dave Filoni's script for TBOBF was designed to help explain the path Luke is on that will eventually lead to TLJ.

I'm not interested in rehashing the same old debates again. I'm simply explaining why a lot of SW fans lost interest at that point in the STs.

The cool thing about The Mandalorian and the other Favreau & Filoni spin-off SW shows is that they are paving the way for what will happen in the STs. In the same way the Clone Wars TV show has ended up enhancing the PT films, Favreau and Filoni may enhance the way fans look at the STs in the future.

 

Which I've been saying ever since TLJ - that film did do Luke justice, he refused to kill his own father, and he chose to end his life his own way rather than give his tormented nephew yet another family member's death on his conscience.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 21, 2022, Original Post Date: Dec 21, 2022 ---

'Rey doesn't need a boyfriend' - Daisy Ridley's own words pre TROS.
I doubt if Rey the Sanctimonious will have a 'lurve interest', but maybe there will be Finn/Jannah. Or new characters.

 

The expanded universe did a much better job of fleshing out Luke's story and his weaknesses. I don't think ROTJ Luke was a clumsy attempt by GL to show his maturity. If anything Luke was already starting to fall victim to his own ego. Hence his bumbling attempt to free Han and Leia from Jabba. Some will argue that he planned it all out but in reality he didn't. It just ultimately worked out. But the way he acted was similar to a young Anakin. As Yoda says "so sure of themselves". Luke had resigned himself to his fate. He knew he had to face Vader. He took a gamble that his father's love for him would overcome the darkside. His love for his own son "attachment" is the very thing that redeemed Anakin and defeated the Sith. I don't think Luke was play acting anything. I am not a fan of any of the Disney movies and my opinion of TLJ is that it was rubbish and they ruined one of the greatest characters of all time. But that's just my opinion. If you love Luke please read the EU books like the Thrawn Trilogy and read Children of the Jedi, Darksaber and Planet of Twilight.

 

Not sure anyone is going overboard here. No attachments obviously. This is touched on in the High Republic as well. Elzar Mann has relationships and attachment issues with Avar Kriss. Leia chooses to walk away from the life of a Jedi as well. This topic is ripe for fleshing out.

I'm confused, what's the retcon?

 

Apparently my use of the word 'ret-con' has you confused. My post has zero to do with Luke's depiction in TLJ other than to offer that Dave Filoni's Luke-Grogu script for TBOBF Episode 6 had an interesting twist on Luke's character that, I believe, might be a conscious decision by LucasFilm to begin slowly moving the character in the direction that will lead to his future portrayal in TLJ. I used the term ret-con because Filoni's script came after we learned what happened to Luke and his Jedi Academy in RJ's film.

I suppose the Luke we saw in TBOBF meant well but nevertheless he was rather hardassed about Grogu and his attachment to the Mandalorian. One might have thought -- given the Luke Skywalker we saw in ROTJ -- that Luke would be much more understanding of Grogu's attachments, especially since Yoda had given him a second chance after he bailed on his training back in Degobah to save his friends. In addition, Luke's attachment to his father ended up playing a pivitol role in the defeat of Palpatine. I just found Luke's lack of sympathy in TBOBF a bit odd given his personal history. It remains to be seen, but I suspect it will be one of the factors that will play into the fall of Luke's Jedi Academy.

 

That's a very good point that Luke, at the point of training Grogu, has seen the benefit of a certain level of attachment(read love). In the future, he will train Leia, and that entire premise is chock-full of attachment issues, yet he did train her? And his nephew? Wow, no attachment issues there, huh?

As far as Luke in ROTJ- first of all, he was the first real, active Jedi Knight we got to see in his full Glory. His arrival at Jabba's, at least to a 9-year old me, was nothing short of a noble, powerful, bad-ass warrior space wizard Knight. We had no standard to compare him to, and in his defense, neither did he. He was arrogant, condescending, and a little robotic, but even as I watch it now, it all really fits. (I'd say that probably Hayden took alot of the mannerisms from this version of Luke and used them as a young Anakin.) ROTJ Luke had way more power than he had training, and that's a big factor into why he was so vulnerable to be seduced by the Dark Side. In Mando and BoBF, we do see a kinder, more gentle Luke, but he still has flaws. When it comes to Luke in TLJ, he obviously is doing what he believes is best, he could have been written any number of ways, but broken hermit Luke is what we got. I don't have any problem with his arc, and there is still a huge gap for more of his story to be filled in between Grogu dropping out and Rey dropping in. Even if he is only used for the occasional cameo here and there, we can still see the development of his character as well as his impact on other characters and events in the GFFA.

 

Vader maybe deserved to die, but Luke wanted to save Anakin - and he did.

 

Take the L??!? What are you talking about?

The post-ROTJ TV shows taking place before the ST films need to bridge the gap between ROTJ and TFA, right? If you'd paid attention, you'd have noticed that I WASN'T KEEN on the choice Luke gave Grogu--but offered an explanation as to why Filoni went there.

I seriously have no clue what "Gotcha" you think you've got on me here.

 

On Luke in TLJ - Here is a copy of a post I did about Luke in TLJ back in January:

On Luke in post-ROTJ/pre-ST stuff:
I'm fine with his portrayal so far. He's dogmatic because his teachers were dogmatic. He understands attachments because he had attachments and probably learned from Obi-Wan and Vader himself what attachments can cost.

On Jedi and Attachments in General:
Anakin has a whole speech about attachments and love to Padme in AOTC. Obi-Wan clearly has friends. The Jedi clearly mourn and express sorrow as well as acceptance. Maybe I'm not the best person to talk about it since I don't have a pet, but my view of Jedi and attachments is how I perceive people view pets:
Pets are great and are a part of the family, but when they get old and their time comes, you don't try to extend their life beyond what it is for your own personal joy. You let them go, with sorrow, but acceptance. THAT is how Jedi love.
IMO, the problem with relationships and marriage in most cases with Jedi is that it creates a competing obligation. A married person must put their spouse first in a way that the Jedi code wouldn't allow. They must fight for their spouse in a way that the Jedi code couldn't accept. They must care about their spouse in a way that is very difficult for a Jedi to maintain peace over. It's not impossible, but it's one of the things that most would fail with, so the guideline is there to protect the majority.
I personally believe that if Anakin came clean about his relationship with Padme, Yoda and Obi-Wan would have less of a problem with it than Anakin fears. They'd have a problem with the marriage, I have no doubt, but not with the two being together in a romantic sense.

 

Yet, Luke had a wife and son in the Legends novels.

The Jedi would have kicked him out of the Order. Which I believe would have been the best thing for him.

 

You know, I actually find much of the Jedi 'way of life' repugnant. They remind me of those strict religious orders that in medieval times were know to wall up young women for 'breaking their vows'. They frown on anything that makes us 'human' (yes, I know they have aliens in their ranks), and seem to want their members to become more like religious icons than people. Ironically Lucas himself laid the groundwork for this creepy 'indoctrination' with the PT.

When we first meet Rey she was desperate for a family, and I vividly remember Daisy Ridley saying she 'didn't think' Rey would become a Jedi. Their strict way of life seemed to go against everything Rey wanted. Yet we end TROS with her becoming exactly that kind of Jedi - without family or attachments. The makers of that film tried afterwards to say that 'Rey would always have her friends'....but they would eventually move on and have families of their own, and even if Finn became a Jedi, the no attachments rule would mean they could never be a couple. Yet another 'beef' I have with DLF - they refused to have the Jedi order evolve into something more 'humane'.