The "treatment of Luke"

The ability to devote themselves to some concept of divinity, a higher power, while having normal human relationships, without either adversely affecting the other, is something people have struggle with for centuries. And will probably continue to do so.

I think we can thank SW for not just slapping an imaginary band aid on the problem or just saying "No it's not" and pretending that it's no problem.

 

And millions can't hold a job or a relationship. And million's can't have healthy relationships or a good work-life balance/rhythm. But again, Jedi are not like most.

They'd be okay with Padme and Anakin being in a "friends-with-benefits" and intimate (to a degree) but not necessarily bound and exclusive relationship. All the fun, none of the attachment.

The fact that in TCW Obi-Wan knows Anakin is talking to Padme. The fact that the minute Obi-Wan figures out Padme is pregnant the first person he suspects is the father is Anakin. The fact that when Obi-Wan needs to find Anakin, the first person he goes to is Padme. Obi-Wan 100% knows what's going on. He may not know the extent - which is a problem - but he knows of Anakin's feelings for Padme as far back as the beginning of AOTC. Yoda is more speculative, but I'm sure he knew as well. The fact that neither of them call Anakin out either means that they either thought he wasn't breaking any major rules (which means that relationships are okay) or that they thought he'd grow out of it and make "the right choice." (Which makes sense given Obi-Wan's relationship with Satine.) Or I guess Obi-Wan just has a blind-spot for Anakin, but I'd like to think he knew better.

And when their time to serve comes, they can't abandon their duty midway just because their personal lives suffer or look like they will suffer. That's part of what Anakin's problem is. It's not just the relationship, it's that he made a promise to behave a certain way and be bound by a certain code. He WANTS glory within the group that enforces said code, but his desire for Padme and to have a relationship with her conflict. He can't be married and have the life it entails (no attachments) AND be a Jedi. They're opposites, because they're pulling him in different directions.

Anakin can be a good father and husband and not be a Jedi, or he can be a bad father and husband and be a great Jedi. But he wants it all. Add the fear of losing Padme into that, and he's a powder keg about to explode. He didn't take hearing the Jedi platitudes of "let go" well because he was too attached. If he was a boyfriend or just an FWB, he'd probably be able to let go. But because he's a husband, a man in love, a father to be, he can't.

Because attachments are a problem. FWB isn't necessarily a problem, but when things get too intimate it can be. And with Anakin falling to the Dark Side because he was too attached to Padme (not even Shmi, just Padme), it's easy to see why this rule is in place. It's similar to why the heroes have to leave their hometown in fantasy stories - to save the world, you have to let go of your previous sense of identity and obligation. You can't save the world if you're worried about a date that evening or your sister's recital. (In fact, small things like this are often points of tension in superhero stories - CW's Superman & Lois is built on the idea that Superman needs to learn to slow down and be there for his family despite his obligation to the wider world.)
Parents are an attachment. They teach children how the world may work and ingrain habits in them, for better or for worse. For the Jedi (and most people in general) it's easier to teach than it is to unlearn and then teach.

Dex in AOTC would like to have a word with you.

Force Sensitive people aren't normal people. They have a power greater than most others, and that power can lead to great and terrible things if not properly trained and understood. It's the whole "With Great Power Must Also Come Great Responsibility" thing. No, it's not fun, normal, or fair. But it's not lonely or without purpose either. The Jedi are a community, a family, that can see into the depths of the universe itself. They get to go nearly anywhere they want and experience life in a way others can only read about. Sure, it's work, but that doesn't mean that there isn't fun or enjoyment either. Sure, it's not normal to the rest of the galaxy, but that doesn't mean it's not understood by other Jedi.

 

You make valid points but my belief in the Jedi remains unchanged. At the end of the day, no one chooses to be Force sensitive. The Jedi's belief is that it's 'our way, or the highway.'
In short, do as you're told or become evil. Not nice.

 

Yes, to a degree. TCW shows us that there are other FS groups out there. The Jedi leave the Night Sisters alone, and Jar Jar's girlfriend's society has a FS group. The Jedi are the most popular and most likely group, but I think that if a certain culture has their own way of doing things, the Jedi aren't going to intrude if they aren't welcome.

It's more of "hey leave your kid with us and they'll find a nice community with a purpose and a positive outlook on the world, or don't let them join us and have a higher chance of being poached off by another, more dangerous group." (Sith, Knights of Ren, Night Sisters, etc.) Or just a danger to those around you if you happen to fall to the Dark Side, which is easy to do even with Jedi training, let alone without it. The Jedi aren't perfect, but they're a net positive. The only major problem is that they take kids when they're very young from their family. (Usually with a blessing but not always.) That's...well, there are strong feelings on that form various people.

True, but now that you're in this circumstance, you need to adapt. That's as true for those who are Force Sensitive as it is for virtually everyone in our world. The Jedi are the best solution during times when they're around. They're not the perfect solution, but they're better than literally any other alternative that involves a community that we've seen. Maybe, just maybe some are lucky enough to be on faraway planets and not bother anyone like Luke or Rey, but most aren't. And even then, The Force finds its way to them.

 

This kid disagrees.

 

My theory is, an it's not canonical or the original intentions of Lucas but I think, the Jedi needed to be purged. They were too corrupt, too dogmatic, far removed from what the Jedi centuries before were. I think Luke understood that, and instead of finding it's roots, he wanted to dissolve the order permanently. Rey had the original texts, she learned from them, and discovered the Jedi roots.
In Luke's defense. He never really had a choice. His Aunt and Uncle were slaughtered, he needed to get away, and obi wan was the only solution. I think decades later he realized that. That is why he gave Grogu a choice, and later chose to end the Jedi, to only realize that wasn't the right course if action. Rey was the one to right the ship, to go back to the basics. That's my outlook on the situation.

 

I have a deep abhorrence for any order that takes young children from their parents, teaches them to wield a killing weapon and then proceeds to tell them they aren't allowed to have a family of their own, and that aspects of their ordinary human nature have to be quashed in case they turn 'evil'. Sorry.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 25, 2022, Original Post Date: Dec 25, 2022 ---

I would like that...but Rey at the end of TROS was a role model for everything bad about the Jedi.

 

And you're free to do so, but the Jedi are still the best choice out of the options. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Because the other options, they lead to people like Maul or Second Sister, more often than not. Or, you know, you likely end up with kids who are seen as weird due to their powers/insight (Ben Solo and Leia), those who come with childhood trauma (Anakin), or become power-hungry (Palpatine according to the non-canon Plagueis books).

They (usually) can't create a biological family, that's true, but that doesn't mean that they don't have people they view as family. Obi-Wan views Anakin as a brother. Anakin views Obi-Wan similarly, and also as a father figure. Ahsoka and Anakin are all but stated to view each other as siblings. Rex and Cody are part of the family as well. Just because Jedi can't get married or have children doesn't mean that they don't view other Jedi as part of their family. The Master-Padawan relationship is clearly an analogue to a parent-child relationship.
You don't have to be blood-related or married to have family. That's something that Lucas understood deeply, as a father of adopted children. Friends who eat with my family become my family, despite not having any blood or marital relation. I have a friend who I've known since birth who is as close as a brother, and another friend who my family sort of adopted and is now like a sister to me. None of us are related but we're still a family of sorts. Jedi are similar.

Not turned off, controlled. Jedi can love and do love fully, but they can't grow too attached. Jedi can laugh and have community, but they can't have a family in the "traditional" sense because it creates a weak point and pulls in the opposite obligation. Jedi can feel emotions, but they can't let their emotions rule or guide them. A priest who devotes his life to the church and cannot marry or have children (in the "natural" way) can still have a family. The church is his family - the other priests, the congregation, his God, the service he's devoted himself to. That can be a fulfilling and enjoyable life.

Ha! Well, the time of the Jedi was over, sadly. But go to nearly any other time the Jedi were active in the galaxy and they're still the best choice, past or future.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 25, 2022, Original Post Date: Dec 25, 2022 ---

I think TLJ goes antithetical to that approach, and it goes out of its way to show that the whole "burn it down" approach is wrong. Remember, that's where Luke starts, not where he ends.
TLJ shows that burning things down doesn't necessarily make it better, because you're not fixing the core problem. Kylo destroying the Jedi and the Sith wouldn't stop Light and Dark from battling, nor would it stop the corruption in any real way.
Yes, the PT Jedi needed to be stopped, and their hubris ultimately ended in them being destroyed. (That is completely in-line with what Lucas thought and intended IMO.) They were supposed to be rebuilt with the newfound knowledge of what happens when the Jedi get too prideful...but like in our world, history repeats. But that doesn't mean "okay, this system is broken so let's tear it down," it means "okay, this system is broken - let's FINALLY fix the core issue."

TLJ shows that how we fight is as important as what we fight. Sacrificial plays need to be done with full intent and to help others, not out of pride or arrogance or desperation.
Yoda destroyed the tree because it was holding Luke back, not because the Jedi needed to be destroyed.

 

How did Luke learn about the Jedi's mistakes from the Old Republic? From Ahsoka? Did Johnson know that she and the younger Luke would eventually meet?

 

Luke spent his time after Endor searching for Jedi documents and relics. Surely he found tales of, or even encountered survivors of the Purge. Seeing him with Asokha served to flesh that story out some. Whether that was a plot point when making TLJ, or was retrofitting by Fav & Fil, who knows...

 

He also probably had access to three very knowledgeable Force Ghosts. Four if Qui-Gon decided to show up. Between that firsthand knowledge, Ahoska's experience (which may be a retrofit as you mention), and all of the artifacts, it's pretty easy to see how a clear picture could come to be.

 

My money's on retro-fitting by Favreau and Filoni. It's hard to watch the STs and feel the film directors did a whole lot of backstory developing and big picture planning beyond their own film. IMO, it's why the trilogy is so uneven.

 

The Jedi needed to evolve.
Yes, maybe priests can't marry but have a 'family' of sorts in the church....not so long ago there was a campaign to relax the rules and allow marriage; priests often have terrible and upsetting things to do and having a spouse you can talk to of your feelings can be a great help.

If Anakin could have confided in Obi Wan of his worries about his wife, things could have been so different. The Jedi were too rigid in their ways. I also found how Obi Wan left Anakin to died in agony when he could so easily put him out of his misery repugnant. Again, Jedi teachings. Reflected in Rey who healed Kylo Ren after stabbing him because of the stain on her own soul rather than remorse for what she'd done..

Hypocrites.

 

What im saying is, their failure was inevitable. They were blinded by arrogance. They couldn't possibly think the sith could return, even though they knew about Darrh Maul. Anakin's fall was inevitable. They had one job to do, protect the galaxy from the Sith and they failed miserably, so they were no longer effective. The cosmic force allowed a reset. Everything that happens is the will of the force. In the end it all worked out.