The "treatment of Luke"

That's exactly it. Obi-Wan clearly knew that Anakin had romantic feelings for Padme and his advice always was on the side of "keep it in line, you're slipping." (See the assassination attempt early in AOTC and on Geonosis at when Padme falls off the ship.) Obi-Wan clearly knows that Anakin and Padme are talking, as evidenced in the final season of TCW. It's never a problem that they HAVE a relationship to Obi-Wan, simply that it keeps Anakin from his goals and objectives as a Jedi. Marriage amplifies this because not only does it go against the Order's rules, but it also pulls Anakin away from his Jedi obligations. There's a 2-3 episode arc early in TCW that involves a hostage situation that could have easily been solved had Anakin not given his lightsaber to Padme for a time. There's a reoccurring arc where Padme's ex-boyfriend shows up, and Anakin at times causes more problems than solutions because he's jealous and possessive.

Personally, I'm finding the quotations around the word family to be a little offensive. Yes, it's still family. Family can mean many things and it's not always about marriage or blood. To disregard that feels pretty myopic IMO.

They can also talk to other priests about those things. Like you'd talk to someone in your small group about if you were in a church. Or your therapist, or other people who are trained or experienced enough to help you.* Yes, a spouse can and ideally should be a great safe space to talk about things with. But to say that they're the ONLY person you can or should talk about things with isn't true. Not to mention that there are sometimes problems that you don't want to talk about with your spouse, at least not at first.

Agreed, but Anakin didn't because he was afraid of the consequences. (Like how someone may smoke or drink in secret when on a Zero Tolerance campus or team because they know their actions are wrong.) Fear leads to anger - anger directed at the Jedi teachings. Anger leads to hate - hatred of the Jedi. Hate leads to suffering - suffering for all. Suffering leads to the Dark Side.
Yes, Anakin should have confided in Obi-Wan beforehand, but that's not the Jedi's fault that he didn't. It was his own fear.

I don't disagree, but we can easily see this from Obi-Wan's perspective as well.
Obi-Wan is forced to fight his brother, someone who he begged Yoda not to send him to fight and tries to reason with him throughout the entire thing. At the end, Anakin has lost three of his limbs, caught on fire, and is on the verge of death. Obi-Wan, even after all that, still doesn't want to be the one to kill his brother, so he leaves Anakin to his own fate, expecting him to die on the lava shores of Mustafar. Had Palpatine not swooped in, that's exactly what would have happened too. (And there's a passed out heavily-pregnant-with-twins woman Kenobi needs to go check on.)

That's what Obi-Wan believed for ten years until Reva told him otherwise.

But if that doesn't work, we can try to put it in Kylo Ren terms - Obi-Wan did what Kylo Ren did in TLJ when facing Leia. He refused to deliver the killing blow despite being on opposite sides. Or to put it in a slightly more ironic and tragic way - Obi-Wan was too attached to Anakin as his brother to act as the Jedi he needed to be in the final moments.

Didn't she immediately after say that "it's what Leia would have wanted." I genuinely don't remember if that's a fact or if I just made that up to justify the weirdness of it. If it's in the movie, then Rey isn't doing this to stain her soul - because remember she's the reason he was in that state to begin with - but rather because someone else would have wanted it and she's honoring THEM, not herself.


*And this is exactly what Anakin does when he finally goes to Yoda. Anakin's problem is that he doesn't like the advice he was given.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 27, 2022, Original Post Date: Dec 27, 2022 ---

They didn't know if he was the master or apprentice. Or where to strike next or look next. So they continued on doing what they were supposed to do - help out in the Galaxy and train future Jedi.

You could also view it as The Force saying "hey, I'm sending you your messiah because your mission isn't over."
And while the Chosen One prophecy was about the Sith, the Jedi are more than just that one prophecy. They existed before it, they will exist after it. The Chosen One was a tool for a specific mission, not the sum of their usefulness or purpose.

The Cosmic Force allowed the prophecy to be fulfilled in a way that neither Jedi nor Sith could expect. The Sith thought they won by turning the Chosen One, but their tricks only allowed for the Chosen One to get close enough to finish the job. (...until TROS...)
The Jedi thought that the Chosen One could be a tool, if Anakin was the Chosen One at all. Instead, The Chosen One betrays them, forcing Jedi to face their hubris, and is redeemed through a love said Chosen One was forbidden to have.

 

Yeah the Jedi were wrong about a great many things. They lost touch. They couldn't see the obvious signs right in front of them. A secret clone army, no one even questioned, and basically starting the clone war to help another Jedi who had no business being where he was to begin with. They claimed to be keepers of the peace, yet they became armed combatants, in a war that really had nothing to do with the force. Is their allegiance with the force, or with the Republic? They're obviously not the same. In helping the Republic they created the Empire. In reality the separatists were on the right side of the war, excluding the corrupt trade Federation etc, but in it's roots, the Separatist planets wanted freedom. The Republic was unfair to small less populated systems, basically using them as slave labor. The Jedi really had no business being involved, but they wanted to keep their power and influence over the Republic and the Galaxy.

 

Exactly. How anyone can expect a 50+ year old man to behave like a 20 something stud is beyond me.

Except that JJ Abrams said that Rey's parents weren't in TFA.

 

It never ceases to amaze me that Abrams and Pablo Hidalgo repeatedly insisted post TFA that Rey was not a Skywalker .....then she adopted the name in TROS.

 

Their failure was to see the Sith take over. They were too arrogant to see the writing on the wall. They say the sith blinded their judgment but they were blinded by arrogance and complacency. Much like the Republic itself.

 

It is arrogant to categorically dismiss opposing opinions and to refuse to even consider others' ideas based solely on one's overwhelming self-assurance. ( I AM referring to the Jedi council)

Also, does it really matter what percentage of success or nonsensical statistic can be computed when a genocide occurs? I mean, a 97% success rate vs. Sith, commonly known as SRVS metrics would probably look good on your annual performance review, except, oh wait... everybody's dead.

 

I think it's fair to say that the Jedi's response to learning the Sith were no longer extinct (!?) alternated between monumental complacency and s**tting the bed.

Similarly, their relationship with the chosen one prophecy swung back and forth from denouncing it to putting all their eggs in that basket.

Luke's "legacy of failure" comment was well justified in that context.

 

Well, the Titanic only hit one iceberg...

 

Ima gettin off this hamster wheel.

 

If they fail to get a hit any time does it plunge the galaxy into darkness for decades?

 

Aaron Judge just had the greatest offensive season in American League history but because of a poor (failure of a) playoff performance it led some Yankee fans to believe he wasn’t worth bringing back at the price and years his new contract would demand.

Context matters to the failure. We’re not talking about a couple of oopsies by the Jedi. We’re talking about a series of oversights, mistakes and errors over the course of decades that resulted in the oppression of the entire Galaxy.

 

Passionately dedicated characters on top of their game who have achieved great success at impossible tasks can't possibly end up going through experiences which cause them to chuck all hope out the window, sulk like a pouting child, and lose all faith in the world and their purpose in it.








Cheers,
Jayson