The "treatment of Luke"

I owe that man my childhood. My life. Meeting him would be akin to meeting a God...I'm not even joking. He created a myth in a time when new myths hadn't taken hold in nearly two millennia. He is a savant. The way he sees the world should be cherished. I don't share the same passion or knowledge for filmmaking that you do, it's his philosophy I cling to. That's the beauty of his creation and work - there is truly something here for everyone.

 

I try not to allow anyone the foothold of idolism in my mind. To me, it strips them of their humanity and turns them into a hero or villain. I'm not claiming this is an absolute truth or that anyone is wrong or right. This is my own psychology and emotion.

Cheers,
Jayson

 

I accidentally cited the wrong interview for Kurosawa's quote. This is the correct interview.
https://cinephiliabeyond.org/paradise-around-rare-interview-akira-kurosawa-maani-petgar

Cheers,
Jayson

 

As a kid I was horribly bullied at school; as a result I escaped into the SW world. It offered me a much needed break from reality.

As an adult, it was a franchise I still had a deep affection for, and why DLF choosing to end the Skywalker Saga the way they did broke my heart. As a result I have zero interest in anything Disney does these days. I'm genuinely saddened by this, but it's the times we live in.

 

I'm sorry to hear about your experience in school. I'm glad you had this world to take refuge in! It hurts, what's happened...I feel the same. I do still believe there is scope for meaningful stories to be told in SW - just they desecrated the most precious/overarching one. It's gonna take a long time for the franchise to heal completely, if ever

 

You took the words right out of my mouth, even if it's the title of a Meat Loaf song!

I've had franchises I liked come and go, but SW will always be 'the' franchise for me - I saw it as a unique combination of sci fi and sword and sorcery, and frankly I doubt it will ever be bettered.
Many complained about the PT, but it didn't 'ruin' SW - the ST did. What really hurts for this fan is that I'm finding it impossible at the moment to watch any of the previous films now I know how the story ends. I know there are Finn and Rey fans out there who still hope for a continuation of their story, and that's cool, but for me the ST was really the story of the villain winning - because he wanted to erase the Skywalkers and he succeeded. Giving Rey the 'honorary title' seems silly to me as DLF - and I suspect, Abrams - wanted them gone.

It doesn't help much that I really enjoyed TFA and loved TLJ, so TROS was a real culture shock. Three years since I sat open mouthed and drooling into my popcorn whilst enduring it, and I still haven't gotten over it!

 

I did not make any comments about the only way to deal with any actor dying and how any role being continued in some way in further movies, in the interest of honor.

We're talking about Princess Leia, played by Carrie Fisher, in the concluding episode of a saga about her family.

No disrespect but Paul Walker's character was not Princess Leia. And The next Fast film was not the final episode in the SKYWALKER saga. And, again no disrespect meant, but Paul Walker was not Carrie Fisher.

The idea of recasting Leia just because the idea of her death occurring during the saga and it having some significant meaning for characters and plot is somehow unacceptable to some fans. Lets just acknowledge that this notion is patently absurd. Leia needing to survive the end of this saga in order for the fans of the saga to not feel dishonored is just ridiculous.

The decision of having Leia sacrifice herself and her son because she'd reached the point were she couldn't accept the losses as a solution to Carrie not being able to participate is perfectly valid, reasonable and understandable. There is no standard, value or virtue that the makes of TROS have abandoned or blasphemy made by doing that. It's not me you should be arguing with about insisting Leia had to die during ep ix on screen (I never even said that). I'm not the one saying that Leia dying in episode IX was out of the question.

I don't know but every single thread on the cantina seems to be filled with moral judgements thrown at anyone who came up with or doesn't condemn as unforgivable the situation where Rey, who is the daughter of a failed, non evil, no sith clone experiment of Palpatine's lives on, adopting the name Skywalker, after at the end of TROS while Adam Driver's character and the rest of the "Skywalkers" did not.

 

I'm not filled with moral judgements about this. I simply hate this conclusion to the Skywalker saga and wish with every fiber of my being that Lucasfilm had told a different story. Nor did I see the need to wipe out the entire Skywalker line. I mean . . . if Lucasfilm was going to go there, it might as well wipe out Palpatine's line - including Rey.

 

I'm not intending to get after you or anything, but you didn't see a dead man walking when Kylo first showed up back in TFA?
I mean... this is Star Wars we're talking about.

When a character walks in looking like this...



Clearly quoting this...


It's sort of hard to ignore this...



Just as much as when you see a character walk in looking like this...


Clearly quoting this...


It's sort of hard to ignore this...




Cheers,
Jayson

 

Likewise, there’s no real “need” for either of them (Luke was already dead) to be alive at the end of episode IX.

I don’t know of any logic or any civilised concept of justice that dictates that everyone related to Palpatine needs to die in order to offset the end of the Skywalker line.

 

Hi Jayson....interesting that you point these out, because it's precisely because of the comparison between him and Vader that those who like the Kylo character felt as if we'd been shafted;

Anakin/Vader was only half alive. He died when Padme did; this was emphasised in the Obi Wan series when he spoke as if he was a different person to Anakin to Obi Wan. Kylo aka Ben was young and fit and had his whole life ahead of him.
Anakin was better off dead. Ben was not.
Anakin's actions in ROTJ, killing Palpatine, also killed him....up till the moment he did that to save his son he was the 'bad guy.' His death redeemed him.
Ben had already turned back to the light when he confronted Palpatine - so basically the message was it is pointless to 'turn back to the light', you will still die. No redemption but death.

This is incredibly depressing....especially from Disney, whose series Once Upon a Time featured bad guys that got a happy ending despite what they had done. Killian Jones, the Wicked Queen and Mr Gold all got their happy ever afters and lived. Despite doing some pretty bad things.

And finally...Rey isn't Luke. She might have been raised on a desert planet and wear off white pyjamas but the characters are completely different.

 

This seems like a rather drastic way of reacting to the STs. I hated the last two films but that hasn't dampened my love of Star Wars. Fortunately, TV shows like The Mandalorian quickly reignited my fanboy flames.

I would encourage folks here to view SW content the same way I follow my favorite college football team. When they play an incredible game I am thrilled and obsess over the game's highlights for a long time. But when they lose --- or heaven forbid --- get blown out, I try to block it out of my mind as quickly as possible.

 

I think it's because you love all aspects of SW...the spin offs as well as the films. I loved it for the Skywalkers.

 

I think this passion shows they did a good job making the tragic character endearing.

But I'll focus in on something here.

Star Wars has always had an afterlife, and the struggles were always about the moral bearing of the eternal soul, "not this crude matter", and death has always been the cost of radical change in these movies.

I'm not interested in trying to convince you away from hatred. Do as you like.
I was just a bit surprised it wasn't clear he wasn't getting out alive.

Interesting.

Cheers,
Jayson

 

I'm kind of happy we can move beyond the Skywalkers. Turning this IP into Yellowstone in Space where we follow the space Duttons forever would have been unimaginative.

 

Thanks for reminding me 'how old I've become'.

 

But it was never the franchise that you had affection for. By your own admission it's just the Skywalkers.

If you are not interested in anything Star Wars just because the original Luke, Leia and Ben are dead by the end of their saga, then it's safe to say you never had deep affection for the "franchise".

And you still loved "the franchise" after TLJ when the only character in it named Skywalker was killed. Leaving only Leia and Kylo Ren. Carrie died as TLJ was being released and if anyone here is being honest with themselves, we all knew the writing was on the wall for Leia at that point.

As for Kylo Ren, it's silly to even pretend to talk about him as if he all didn't know he was doomed the moment he appeared on screen and we learned who and what he was. It was so obvious that people complained how predictable that outcome was two films before it even took place.

I think we all get it now. You resent Rey being rewarded with longevity while Adam driver's character did not. There's nothing especially wrong with that. But I'm not sure every thread about the ST needs a lecture about how the entire franchise is worthless as a consequence. Or judgements being made on people who accept the ending of the saga.

Bullying is terrible. It's not particularly nice either to visit a forum where you're made to feel like you're some sort of deviant or person of questionable morals because you aren't up in arms about one character living on beyond the end of their saga. Especially when the solution to this supposed outrage we're told is for Rey to have died too just because she's the grandchild of the actual villain of the saga.

 

I’ll admit to being one also disappointed that they kinda just killed him. I think there’s two layers to it for me.

there’s that imagery you mentioned. He shares imagery and other stuff with Vader, so we see one as following a similar path as the other. With this, I get the idea of Ben repeating his grandfather’s path still into death post-redemption.

It was..fine, and understandable (especially with how I view JJ’s work in the Sequel films as playing a lot on nostalgia, unfortunately, or as I believe like he said with ep 7, “recapturing that magic” when he first saw ANH, and by extension RotJ).

What I, personally, wanted to see and thought would’ve been a better story would’ve been what they ended up proposing with Reva: that a character that was fallen is redeemed.. And then survives to walk the path of reconciliation. To me, the idea of a character turning back to the light and then attempting to make amends is far more interesting than repeating the “redemption into death.” Even if we don’t actually see it, the openness and potential could’ve at least made some interesting speculation/writing fuel of what that life looks like.

Did it work? I guess. Do I think it was the best move to make? Not at all. In my honest opinion, that moment could’ve used that “subversion of expectations” that we might’ve had from Vader and the OT.

 

I resent how a female character was presented in those films, actually. I loved Jyn Erso in Rogue 1, Leia in the OT, and even Padme and Q'ira in Solo were interesting characters. But Rey was poorly written. She was far too good to be true, especially in TROS. It is disappointing, to me as a woman, that they seemed to think making her into someone who could do no wrong, was universally adored, and could get away with anything, would make her an excellent role model. Daisy's natural charm made her work but by TROS she was just a morally superior empty shell.

As for 'lecturing' people...you are doing a pretty good job of that with this post!