Trilogy not planned?

I think another misstep by Disney was not banking on the new characters resonating with the fans like they did. From what I read (take it with a grain of salt) but Finn and Poe had much bigger roles in TLJ after the success of TFA.

I honestly think if they knew fans would gravitate to the new characters before they started filming Episode 7, I don’t know if the OT characters would have been as prominent and the may have been a true passing the torch roles. Think about it, they saved the return of Luke to sell Episode 8 and the movie grosses 325 million less domestically?

If Luke, Leia and Han had more minor roles in Episode 7, they could have REALLY focused on Rey vs Ren and the secondary characters for Episode 8 and 9 and they may all have different arcs because they would have had more screentime.

Now you have this shadow of Luke’s arc in TLJ that will forever divide the fanbase. Some love it and some hate it, but I think the Trilogy would have been better served to focus on the new characters for 2 movies, whereas now they are starting from scratch with Episode 9.

The success of Rey, Kylo, BB8, Finn and Poe showed that SW fans don’t need Luke, Leia and Han to stay interested in a GFFA. Disney could have really moved on from the Big 3 without alienating anyone.

 

Everything Rian Johnson says makes it sound like he really had no direction, which I'm sure was liberating but rightfully annoys some viewers when comparing the two movies.

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I don't think this trilogy is as indebted to nostalgia as others do but if I had to argue I'd say most of the nostalgia comes from the trappings. Images like the storm trooper, light sabers, X-wings and Millennium Falcon. These things didn't have to be in the new trilogy. Removing the old characters (other than Chewbacca and the droids) is a financial balancing act. If I was cynical, I'd say rather than letting the old characters live, it's more profitable to use nostalgia to bring people into seats to see Luke Skywalker so that you can sell them Rey because the harsh truth is Ridley has more tomorrows in her future than Hamill.

 

My interpretation of how this has all come about is that J.J. and KK had a basic outline of where they wanted the trilogy to go, but it was really vague - i.e. “We are going from NYC to LA.” How they were going to get between the two points was left up to the writers. I definitely think this trilogy has suffered to an extent because of how vague the outline appears to have been and it could have benefitted greatly from either a more planned structure (like LOT) or to have had a more consistent set of writers and directors.

TFA and TLJ seem terribly disconnected to me in terms of tone and style. Much more so than episodes in either the OT or PT.

 

From what i know, and people may correct me but, The last Jedi was written before the force awakens came out and thier was no real big rewrites the first draft was pretty much what went into production.

 

Well, lightsabers were always going to be part of the trilogy, that I can tell you with certainty. Anyone that wants to do a ST without lightsabers is clearly not qualified to do a ST. Stormtroopers didn't necessarily have to be in the movie, unless the story revolves around some sort of Empire 2.0 or Empire-fanatics (as it does). About the rest of the imagery I agree, although when JJ was cast I could immidiately tell the MF and X-wings were going to be part of the movie somehow. If you know his previous work you know this is simply what the guy does, he's the master of reboots.
However, how is removing the old characters "a financial balancing act" (whatever that means)? They could've told Rey's story by letting the old cast live as well to guarantee the old fandom's involvement...

 

this is down to perspective, I personally agree with you, the first time i saw The Last Jed and the force awakens back to back, i found it incredibly jarring but others swear it flows perfectly.

 

The stories are all over the place because:

a) Disney wanted their money sooner.
b) They assumed it was the right way to do it because the original trilogy was SUPPOSEDLY made up as it went along.. which wasn't really the case.

Lucas WAS planning a 9 episode arc since the start. Mark Hamill has stated numerous times that Lucas was telling him about this during the filming of ANH.. he even told Mark he'd be around 50-60 when he'd return during the sequel trilogy. He didn't mention the milking scene though.

 

Even if the OT was made up as they went it was still flowing from the mind of one person, not different committees.

 

The deal is that it is obvious that Kathleen Kennedy makes a great production assistant, but is an epic failure as the top person. These movies are clearly not a cohesive storyline. It reminded me of grade school when the class would write a story by having one person write a couple sentences and the next person pick it up from there. There was always one kid - usually me - who would take the story and write "and then aliens came down from outer space and killed everyone!"

There is no logical continuation of story from E7 to E8. The plots that E7 established were entirely discarded. Even people who liked E8 have a hard time debating against that fact.

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Given that Abrams is coming back, I expect E9 to be more cohesive with E7 than E8.

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It's Star Wars. They could have put a trained monkey in charge and made billions. But a trained monkey would probably not have done as much long term damage as KK seems to have done.

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I think it is even more than that they wanted financial returns hastily from the movies themselves. They wanted to get all the cross promotions up and running hastily, and the movies suffered as a result. They want to get Star Wars Land up and running, the interactive hotels, the toys, the merch, the TV shows, etc, etc....

 

Yay, another hyperbolic post about TLJ by someone who didn't like the film.

 

Agreed. Film revenue is like change for Disney... The real money lies in the merchandise. This is a path Disney definitely follows like Lucas did.

MOD EDIT.

 

Eh. I'm a "sympathizer of the film" and I agree 100% with what he said.

 

You like TLJ and actually believe "there is no logical continuation of story from E7 to E8. and the plots that E7 established were entirely discarded?" It's kind of a ridiculous claim.

 

Let's not get personal with our arguments.

Keep it clean guys.

 

With all that's happened — Luke is dead, Leia won't be in it, Snoke is gone, and Rey's pretty much where she's always been — the only thing which has really obvious continuation potential is Kylo as the new Supreme Leader. Everything else will need to be fabricated, since TLJ ended very neatly.

 

That’s going to be the problem with Episode 9 is it will now have to take time and setup whatever new plotline and character motivations. So instead of getting right into Episode 9 without a setup needed like Episode 6 & 3, we have to waste time setting everything up again.

 

I wouldn't mind a fresh setup. I would be far better than what E8 did, which was continue right from the end of E7 but in a way that makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever from a storytelling standpoint.

I have faith in Abrams. E7 was a really good movie and I think he will be able to continue his ideas from that film. It will take a bit of retconning, but I have hope.

 

You may not like it but you can’t say it didn’t make any sense as it was just continuing story exactly after Episode 7, compared to a lapse in time before previous movies.

 

Yes I can say it didn't make any sense because, well, it didn't make any sense. The time lapse is a storytelling narrative which allows for situations between the end of one movie and the start of the next to have changed. It is E8's lack of time lapse which creates all the problems.

Suppose I spliced the movies in such a way that we go from the end of E7, skip the credits, skip the E8 opening crawl, and play on from there watching it straight through. There would be all sorts of things which make no sense. Well, by not having a time lapse between the 2 movies, that splicing is essentially what happens. It just happened to be separated by 2 years of RW time.

 

A) you're talking about episode IX and the claim was about 7 and 8.
B) This trilogy isn't about Luke and a Jedi is never really gone. His role is a supporting role dead or alive.
C) Rey goes through a lot in the TLJ. I'm not sure how you believe she's the same.

A lot happens in The Last Jedi. Poe is basically the leader of the rebellion. Finn isn't running away any more. He's found a cause worth fighting for and Rey is now on the path to rebuilding the Jedi Order.

Kylo Ren now leads the First Order. We still haven't learned about the Knight of Ren. Are they Luke's former pupils? How will Leia be handled?

People can have issues with story choices with this film. People lose me when they say the film is illogical or has plot holes. The Last Jedi is a well made and a lot of care was put into the story. That doesn't mean you have to like the choices RJ and Lucasfilm has made, but the characters did grow and there's plenty of places the story could go.