What I don't like about the MF and MSW spoiler leaks.

I share your trepidation. I DO NOT think that killing characters, especially ICONIC characters, is generally wise. The cinematic demise of James T. Kirk, as an example, is now widely considered a mistake, especially in the way it was portrayed. Kirk went out with a whimper, not a bang. I DO NOT want that to happen to Han.

This world is harsh. Sometimes, it feels like it's all going to hell in a hand basket. Every day, death, destruction, religious wars, hate and intolerance surround us. The Dark Side surely has a hold on the human race, it seems. What I want (and this is personal), is to see my heroes triumph over these forces. I want to see Luke, Leia and Han together one more time. I want to see Han kiss his Princess. I want to see Luke be a badass. I want to leave the theater, thrilled and happy, with a smile on my face, not teary eyed that my childhood hero died at the hand of a punk.

I still have hope that the rumors are wrong, or at least not fully right. JJ's keeping it close to the vest, for sure, and the cast seems thrilled with the final film. I am cautiously optimistic.

 

I think it depends how it is done. The Star Trek comparison is interesting as the death of Spock in Wrath of Khan shows you it can be done well and with acclaim. That said, I don't much care for the description of Han's demise in the spoilers.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 8, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 8, 2015 ---

Forgive me if I don't treat this as the truth.

 

The best way to keep the plot of a movie secret is by releasing a "leaked" synopsis of that movie. This "leaked" synopsis will be a combination of truth and fiction.
Any "genuine" leak will automatically be debunked by those who have read the "official leak".
If anyone says "don't think that part of the leak is true", the answer is always "we know it's true, we seen the footage in trailers match up perfectly so it must all be true".
The "official leak" has been around for MONTHS. Just there, existing in plain sight, for anyone and everyone to read.
When I watch football online, sometimes it's taken off air. They go to the trouble of chasing down the online streams every single game and try and close them down.
Do Disney and LucasFilm really not have the power to say "hey, take that leak down, you've ruined our movie"?
If it's not 100% truth, but a mix of truth and fiction, they don't need or want to take it down, they want it there to keep the real plot of the movie secret.

 

Yeah, this is something I've wondered about for a long time. The MSW spoilers are just so easy to find, you have to wonder why Disney would just let them be.

A while ago Abrams said that some of what was out there was true and some false. So there may well have been an intentional disinformation campaign. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

Sounds reasonable. What if the so-called "leaked plots" are actually leaked by Disney and Lucasfilm to throw us out of the real plot? As Admiral Ackbar would say...

 

This is how I hope Abrams, Kasdan, Kennedy and the rest are reacting when they read all our posts in the tinternet

 

Spock's death is a great example. It was so very, very well done.....and they ended up taking two more films devising ways to bring him back. You DON'T kill an icon. You just DO NOT do it.

 

I dont think so guys. As much as I would love for them to have some big surprises up their sleeves I just don't think that's going to happen.
On the contrary: everything shown so far in tv spots and trailers lines up perfectly with the 'leaks'.
True, we don't know the details yet, but I'd be (pleasantly) shocked if the film we're getting next week will be that much different from what's out there.
I'm afraid Han will die and Luke wont intervene. He's in hiding. And they had better written a damn good explanation for that or there will be lots of disgruntled fans. Myself included.
Still: JJ seems to be as big a fan of the original films as the rest of us and Kasdan is the guy who co-wrote most of them so there is hope ...

 

Everyone has a right for their opinion, but I beg to differ in one point with the OP: When discussing about Han's right for heroic death and then condemming his death as not one (if the rumors are about Kylo killing him are true, and please note here: A BIG IF!).

But what is more heroic than trying to save your own son even at the risk that it might mean your own death; that is a paternal love at its deepest, the ultimate sacrifice...? A true hero's death? He is a hero, therefore he automatically will have a hero's death.

So in this case, I take you mean a significant death? Make no mistake: No matter how you look at the topic, sacrificing yourself to save your son is always significant. What is the outcome of his sacrifice, we do not yet know.

 

"What I want (and this is personal), is to see my heroes triumph over these forces. I want to see Luke, Leia and Han together one more time. I want to see Han kiss his Princess. I want to see Luke be a badass."

These things may not happen. Especially the 3 of them being together again... I just don't think it's in the cards.

"I want to leave the theater, thrilled and happy, with a smile on my face."

THIS, however, will happen.

 

If Han Solo dies in this film, people can point and laugh at me.

Until then, I REFUSE to believe that is his destiny, son or no son.

 

I, too, am unhappy about Luke's having apparently abandoned not just Han and Leia, but the entire Resistance, especially since it appears the situation has deteriorated since the end of ROTJ. I don't like that Han doesn't apparently even get a funeral. Dartha Vader and Padme both got one, so it's not like these things aren't shown in a GFFA.

However, there are scenes missing from the MF script, and we only know about the MSW secondhand, if not third.
And we have no dialogue at all except what's in the trailers.

I don't think we know as much as we think we do. No, there's not a ton of screen time for Luke, but the whole movie could turn on a scene or two and some critical dialogue. Darth Vader was redeemed in a single scene with Luke. Without that scene, we would ALL still think he was a unrepentant bad guy, and it sounds like the the post-Empire universe believes that still.

 

JJ and Kasden are not dumb. If Han dies you can bet everything you own it was discussed ad nauseam with all parties involved (Ford, JJ, Kasden, KK). Han's death will look like the ultimate sacrifice because I do think that is who he is. Honestly I have not read any of the MSW stuff or any other plot outlines so i do not know who is where. If Rey is there, perhaps he sacrifices himself as a chance for her to get away. I mean if that is Luke's daughter, wow. Sacrificing yourself for your best friends daughter...from your own son. Then again, maybe it is his daughter. SO GLAD I DO NOT KNOW THESE THINGS AT THIS POINT!! Come on Dec 17th!

 

What is worst to me is the fact that we won't see them together, I can't believe JJ and Kasdan would be so dumb to do that.

 

You are making multiple assumptions when we really don't have dialogue. That's not to say that I don't do this or other members of this forum don't. But we're almost there. Hang in there!

To be honest, it does seem like it's in Han's character to try to change his son - one he has not seen in 20 years. That's just me.

Also you are going to have to be extra patient with Luke. I don't think he just "ran off". I completely agree that is out of his character. I think we'll find out all we need to know by the end of this movie and Episode VIII. But the reality is we will unfortunately be getting more questions than answers.

 

Great post!
From the shot lists descriptions not only does Han's death seem pointless (I could accept him sacrificing to save others) but also there is no scene description of anything resembling a funeral, everyone seems to be celebrating instead, you just don't kill an iconic character like Han and not show at least his friends and loved ones in mourning.
And seriously what the hell is wrong with Luke? Not only does he not help anyone but he also doesn't care about Han's death either?

 

I'm fine leaving the theater with questions. In fact I hope I do. However, there are some questions that must be answered in VII:

• If Luke truly is not going to swoop in and save his friends, we need to leave that theater 100% understanding why he made that choice.
• If Han dies and isn't given a funeral, we better be told why not.
• If Han dies and there is a funeral and Luke's not there, we better know why.

If we leave the theater and are asking about any of the above things then I personally see that as a pretty substantial failure on the part of the filmmakers. These questions don't encourage discussion, debate, and speculation as much as they indicate mistakes or holes in the script/story.

EDIT: The lack of a funeral for Han is a major red flag for me for multiple reasons:

1. Hero funerals are a Star Wars staple (with the exception of Ben Kenobi, but only Luke was left who knew him, and we at least got to see Luke very distraught over his death).
2. The audience doesn't get to say goodbye
3. Luke and Leia don't get to say goodbye

To me this is the strongest indication that scenes are left out of the shooting schedule, because if Han dies this scene must be in the film.