What I don't like about the MF and MSW spoiler leaks.

I'm okay with Han dying (I think JJ Abrams and KK's hands were tied when Harrison Ford only agreed to come back for one film), but I am NOT okay with how his character is being portrayed in the movie. It seems like JJ Abrams and Kasdan undid all his character development in ESB-ROTJ and are returning him to his smuggler loner trope in ANH, then having him go through a character arc all over again by becoming a hero when he meets Rey/Finn and eventually sacrificing himself to save his loved ones. We already SAW Han's character arc throughout the OT, it seems lazy to go back and redo it. Similarly, with the Han/Leia relationship, we already SAW them try to doubt their feelings for each other and be at odds, then fall in love in ESB, then we have to watch it all over again in TFA? Seriously, wouldn't it have been more interesting to have Han and Leia married but at conflict over what to do about Kylo and whether Leia should use her superweapon when Rey is on the planet? Throwing in a separation plotline in there feels way too cluttered.

The other problem I have with Han dying the way it's written is that it seems like he basically lives a super depressing life for the past 20 years - losing his wife, his son, and then falling into debt and smuggling, and basically being lonely and bitter and depressed. And then he dies? Not much of a way for a hero to go out if you ask me.

I hope they give a good explanation on why Luke is in exile. Maybe Snoke is holding him captive somehow...Otherwise I can't buy that Luke would just disappear from his sister and best friend even after a tragedy like the massacre.

 

It is to me. Killing Han is bad enough (I doubt I could even follow the movie afterward, what with sitting in a daze of bummer unable to have my mind focus after my childhood buddy gets whacked) but it's not just about Han. Knock over Han's domino and all the dominoes go down. You've just ruined everybody's happy ending, Han, Luke, Leia, Chewie- all happy endings ruined. Ending of RotJ is not only pointless, but now a slap in the face.

Take heart, these rumors are completely false. Watch and see. You might ask afterward "But TARS- how did you know?" and I'll just reply "elementary deduction". Watch the interviews and read the articles and JJ is quite adamant in vocalizing that he would in no way, shape or form "ruin" anything. He even defends Star Trek by appealing to the fact he set it in a different universe so as to not "ruin" anything for the fans.

"Those stories about the MSW Han and Luke spoilers?" "It's false," subdued joyful smile. "All of them."

BUT I am going to read the synopsis that someone will write after they see the movie on the 17th; and if by some mind-blowing chance this stuff is true; I seriously doubt I even watch the movie at all. At first I thought I could handle Chewie or Han dying. But the closer we get to D-Day, the more I understand there is no way I can handle that. I've lost a few good friends in this year alone. I actually said at one point "I am done with funerals- I will never attend another funeral as long as it's not mine."

And then I'm going to have to lose someone else abstractly close to me? In Star Wars. This is not going to happen. JJ Abrams would be considered the greatest monster in the history of cinema to do this. Again, Han is a domino- knock him over and they all go down with him.

 

It all comes down to the writing and the actors bringing it to life ... . But dear god, if they are going to kill of Solo they better make it an iconic scene. They are dealing with one of the very, very few true iconic, legendary characters here. He can't go out like a chump.

Then again, Boba Fett did. ;

 

To be fair, you don't really have an Episode VII without giving the Episode VI ending the middle finger...

As Lucas has said, Star Wars is a soap opera. Things are going to happen to cause drama. You can't have a happy ending and then provide another story worth telling in a soap opera.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 8, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 8, 2015 ---

You make very good points. It's just I haven't seen any evidence supporting that we will see any of these things. Perhaps we do.

I think what we need to know about Luke will be revealed in the flashback sequence. Han's lack of a funeral is odd and I agree.


I've said this multiple times, I think there is almost no time gap between Episodes VII and VIII. I think the next movie will pick up right where this one left off. That might be why things are missing.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 8, 2015 ---

I don't think Han's death will be a total tragedy. I think his death will be used as a turning point for Kylo Ren. Total fan fiction here, but if Han does tell Kylo he is Kylo's father, this could really make Kylo reflect certain things for Episode VIII.

 

I don't need a sad ending.
I have real life to do that.

I will go to see the movie, but Han dying will make me not watch it again.

 

Preach. Everything about the MSW outline has been horrendous. Especially Luke uncharacteristically hiding like a b*tch while his loved ones are in danger and dying.

A 2 second Luke cameo, no interaction between Luke, Han, and Leia, combined with the underwhelming death of Han Solo on top of that where not only are we guaranteed we'll never see the big 3 together again ever in future movies (complete waste of a once in a lifetime opportunity), but also Han never gets the send off he deserves, these are all some of the worst things that could ever be done with Star Wars. It would have been better if they never did a Return Of The Jedi sequel at all if this is the case.


Ruining Luke, Han, and Leia is way worse than anything anyone could have ever possibly done to the prequels. I'll just say that.

 

Preacher of which denomination ?

 

The knowledge of the truth that is the eternal living force.

 

are you part of The Jedi Church in The UK ?

 

Lol no. Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side.

 

Hokey religions will save your ass .

 

Han's an old dude. Sad death but it's not like he's some youngling.

 

We can't know precisely how this goes down. Both elements - Bitchy Luke and Sabered-into-Steak Solo - are not fully explained in the synopsis. There is even a hint that it is *Chewie* who dies.
And maybe they have a solid reason for Luke's absence - consider this:

You are the galaxy's most powerful being, yet you leave friends and family to struggle in a seemingly endless war. In what state of mind or body must you be to not help your sister? Your best friend? The lovable rascals, R2 & 3P0? Abandoning relatives on Jakku?

Suggestions:
* Luke is a captive
* Luke is dead / Force ghost
* Luke...is evil
* Luke is... insane (remember that rumor?)
* Leaked spoilers are false
* Luke is addicted to whatever Jabba's smoking
* Luke is now Lulu
* Luke struggles with flatulence
* Luke is more machine now than man
* TFA is about 122 minutes of Luke slashing his way across the galaxy and 13 minutes of Finn, Rey, Poe, Han etc

 

How so?

Why not? Things can happen to cause drama without killing a beloved character and alienating the fans of that character. Nobody died in the OT and there was still plenty of drama. The only thing that can give RotJ the "middle finger" is to take away their well-deserved happy ending. All JJ has to do is have them go through this movie, and then "exit stage left" in a way that "echoes" this:



If Han or Chewie or Leia or Luke dies; that picture and what it represents are given the finger.

But honestly, I don't know why we're even talking about it because these story elements are the result of someone trying to guess things out with miniscule info, while at the same time being completely oblivious as to what movies are, and how you make them. It's all complete nonsense, and poorly constructed nonsense at that. It could only come from the mind of someone with no comprehension of either film-making or story-telling.

I trust JJ when he comes right out and says how nerve-wracking working on this was, how loved the characters are, and how he would never in a million years do anything that would hurt what has come before. I'll make a thread after the movie and everyone who's going on and on about these fake rumors about Han and Luke, and you can all come apologize to me for messing with my zen

 

I'm guessing there is going to be a reverse twist with Kylo, we might be lead to believe he is their son, Han might believe it as well but if/when he confronts him, Kylo is going to tell him that he killed his son...
Or perhaps I'm just too biased against Kylo being a Skywalker...

 

This thread is predicated on two ideas:

The plot synopsis doesn't make Han's (supposed) death look fitting
There is not enough information to reach this conclusion

The plot synopsis doesn't justify Luke's absence
There is not enough information to reach this conclusion

Imagine this shooting schedule one liner from ROTJ

INT Night - 318 - Death Star - THRONE ROOM • Luke on floor and Vader watches Emperor fly

What would we have thought about that scene given this very brief and vague shot description?

 

We know there is not enough information provided with the shooting list, the problem is nobody has been able to provide a convincing story to fill in the blanks, and this shot list has been out for several months now.
So the conclusion many of us reach is that many key scenes are missing or have been changed on purpose.

 

Spock sacrificed himself to rescue his friends and the young Enterprise crew.
I have to agree it was well executed.
By the way I found a alternative ending for ANH.

 

Yes, it was. And then it took two films to unspool the death, and bring back the character. Because everybody wanted more Star Trek with SPOCK!

Hence, my extreme aversion to any film that kills Han Solo. Just NO, JJ!