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Who does the movie title refer to?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Darth Walt, Apr 12, 2019.

?

The movie title refers to...?

  1. Luke Skywalker

    23 vote(s)
    18.5%
  2. Leia Skywalker

    1 vote(s)
    0.8%
  3. Anakin Skywalker

    25 vote(s)
    20.2%
  4. Shmi Skywalker

    2 vote(s)
    1.6%
  5. Rey Skywalker

    34 vote(s)
    27.4%
  6. Ben Skywalker

    26 vote(s)
    21.0%
  7. Another Skywalker

    13 vote(s)
    10.5%
  1. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Jedi Commander

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    Before Carrie’s unfortunate passing she was going to be the more prominent OT character featured in IX. However, she still was going to be a supporting character just like Han was in TFA and Luke was in TLJ. This trilogy is still about our new heroes and while she would have played a part in the story, she would not have done anything to overshadow the new heroes
     
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  2. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    Interesting quotes...

    - Talented Rey possesses an unusually strong connection to the Force. Much like the legendary Anakin Skywalker she is also an expert mechanic and pilot.

    - In Maz’s Caste a lightsaber that once belonged to Luke and Anakin Skywalker calls to Rey through the Force. When she touches it, she sees a Force vision and hears voices from beyond the grave

    - ... Rey claims Skywalker’s blade as her own.

    Etc...

    To me, this sounds like Rey Sky or truly weird stuff coming that has to do with Anakin.
     

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  3. Trev

    Trev Rebel General

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    Well, that’s true –– I just meant, you know, considering what they are and aren’t willing to do with the character, it seems difficult for them to pull it off. ;)

    That being said, I remember reading a few weeks ago that they were editing parts of the film during filming, which is typically very unorthodox for any film. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but it seems like Carrie’s scenes would definitely warrant it. J.J. and Oscar both alluded to lighting apparently being extremely important in certain scenes because it had to match up with other footage. (Again, that seems to have Carrie footage written all over it.)

    I say this because SWNN reported that they were using some digital trickery to make certain footage of her work in this film. However, my understanding of it is that they had a body double stand in for her when they shot the new footage, and then they digitally inserted her into the new footage in the body double’s place. It looks like they already digitally changed her hair, outfit and jewelry (and some people seem to think they added a few wrinkles being that some time has passed since the last film and they want her to appear older). So, I’m under the impression they are doing a bit of editing, but nothing to the extent of Rogue One –– and to be honest, I’m totally fine with that, as long as her performance is still very much left intact.

    Daisy also may or may not have hinted that they’re using behind-the-scenes footage of Carrie in this film, too. Again, maybe I’m reading too much into this, but she just randomly mentioned the particular shot of her and Carrie dancing out of nowhere? The only people who even know what she’s talking about are the die-hard fans who watched the behind-the-scenes footage from The Force Awakens. Someone over at TheForce.net predicted they’d use that shot for an end celebration (if that’s the route the film takes), much like how all of the heroes were dancing and partying at the end of Return of the Jedi. Again, it could be nothing, but they may have a fair amount of behind-the-scenes footage that they could work into the film that we don’t even know about.

    Sorry, this post is very quickly becoming very long and possibly WAY too speculative, but I’m in the same boat as you. I want as much Leia as possible –– and as much badass Leia as possible. I’m currently studying film, and a few months ago, we dedicated a whole class to Furious 7 and talked about how they were able to bring Paul Walker back into the film after he died. I was genuinely shocked at how much they were able to accomplish with the use of a body double. It sounds like J.J. and Lucasfilm didn’t want to take as extensive of an approach to Leia’s role in The Rise of Skywalker, but I think there are ways they could pull off some truly remarkable stuff with Leia if they tried.

    Regardless, they all seem pretty happy with the way her story arc turned out, so I’m optimistic. I’m not expecting any huge fight scenes or anything with her, but if we get anything even remotely close to that, I would actually die of happiness. :)
     
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  4. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Which is why they are able to use old footage and still make it work.
     
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  5. Trev

    Trev Rebel General

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    This is true. I think, if anything, it’s just disappointing that her role may be less than what Han or Luke’s was because they’re limited in what they can do with her. To be honest, I’m okay with it, but I really think this trilogy needed a proper face-to-face between Kylo and Leia, and unless they’re able to use some of the footage of Adam and Carrie when they shot their connection in The Last Jedi, I don’t see that happening. I’m happy we get Leia in this film at all, but it’s still disappointing that there could’ve been limitless possibilities with the character in this film, but the filmmakers are now restricted in what they can and can’t have her do, unlike Han and Luke’s arcs in this trilogy.
     
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  6. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    Interesting indeed... where is this page from, lealt?
     
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  7. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebelscum

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    "Rey Skywalker" is, IMO, "on the table" for TRoS, but not how so many proponents of the idea still seem to believe that it will happen.

    As I've noted several times, the possibility is very much there that Rey could be a Skywalker through Shmi's paternal line.
     
  8. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    It’s Rey’s page from Ultimate Star Wars, New Edition. It will be on sale on October.


    @DigificWriter I agree that Rey Sky is more on cards that most of the people believe it is. But if so I don’t see the point in not doing it in a “traditional way”. If that should be the case, do it. There’s not need of a cadet bloodline or of cloning etc. Things like that won’t add anything from an emotional POV to the story.
    With “something weird” I mean something really weird. To me those lines (especially the one about the voices from beyond the grave) together with other details from TFA (Maz speaking about seeing the same eyes in different people, other stuff), Luke’s words in the ROS trailer about Rey “hundred of generations live in you” etc... and the fact itself that what is underlined is a connection between Rey and Anakin (not even Luke or Leia) all those things may point to something more “mysterious and mystical” that may link her to the “founder” of the Skywalker’s bloodline...
     
    #308 lealt, Jul 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
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  9. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Rebelscum

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    I both want and expect the title to refer to more than one Skywalker. Could be two, could be even more.

    I personally think the top candidates are Luke, Kylo and Rey. And maybe Anakin?

    But is Kylo really a Skywalker?

    I also like the idea some have mooted that maybe Snoke was an ancient Skywalker, the first Jedi, or Prime Jedi. I posted in another thread that the title of Episode VIII, The Last Jedi, is one of my least favourite things about the movie - if the first Jedi was a thing they explored (Snoke or otherwise) in Ep9 it could retroactively improve that for me, I think. Going off on a tangent, sorry.

    And while it’s a nice idea in principle, I have never been keen on the logic of the idea that it could be referring to a new kind of ‘Jedi’ named after Luke... it just doesn’t work grammatically for me - it would be ‘Rise of the Skywalkers’ if that were the case, I think. Having said that, I guess if Kylo Ren turns back to the light he could reclaim the name in honour of his Uncle... but then wouldn’t that still be a bit of a snub to Han? Hmm. I think I’d rather he was Ben Solo again if he is redeemed before the end.

    The Rey question is the funny one. I’ve said here I like the ‘Rey is Anakin reborn’ theory. But if not that, or even in tandem with that, I wouldn’t rule out her being Leia or Luke’s daughter. I can think of a few of ways they would explain it.

    Also maybe Rey could be a clone from Luke’s hand who meets an evil Luke clone who was brought up by Palpatine in secret.

    But whatever else, I think the title is, in part, referring to Luke. Whether it’s as Force Ghost or a fully corporeal resurrection.

    I don’t want to feel trolled by the title though - like if it was the name of a ship or space station or some new character ... ‘Dave Skywalker’ or something(!), I don’t know that I’d like that.
     
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  10. Trev

    Trev Rebel General

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    I think this trilogy clearly establishes that “Skywalker” is used loosely to refer to everyone in that family, whether they have that last name or not. There have been plenty of debates online about whether Kylo really counts as the Skywalker of this trilogy if his last name is Solo.

    Personally, as far as Rey is concerned, I think it’s more likely she’s a Solo than she is a Skywalker. Han is not Force sensitive and we don’t know the extent of Leia’s Force sensitivity, but once Luke reconnected with the Force in The Last Jedi, I would imagine he would’ve at least sensed a faint indication that she was his daughter if she was. With Han and Leia, you could make the argument that Rey was kidnapped from them and abandoned by whoever that person was –– therefore offering a more explicit explanation as to why they’re both drawn to her, but never tell her they know who she is. (I think it also preserves the humanity of both characters, which could be permanently damaged if J.J. decides to reveal that one of them abandoned her on Jakku for whatever reason.)

    If the title even remotely refers to Rey –– and I suspect that it does –– then I think they’ll either reveal her to be Han and Leia’s daughter, or they’ll have some crazy reveal involving Palpatine and how he was somehow responsible for creating her.

    As much as I’d love for the title to be about Luke (and much like The Last Jedi, I think it still could be about him AND Rey), the focus is supposed to be more on the new characters. In my opinion, having Luke Skywalker cheat death the way Palpatine has always wanted to would not only defeat the purpose of his actions in The Last Jedi for many people, but it would also create the same issue that they had when trying to bring him into The Force Awakens script earlier. The minute Luke Skywalker comes on screen and does something epic, everyone suddenly stops caring about Rey. With this being the culmination of the Skywalker saga (and Palpatine returning), I do think Luke rising from the dead is possible, but I really don’t think they’ll go that route. The focus of this film seems to be very much on Rey and the new characters.

    So, yes, I do think this film’s name has multiple meanings. If I had to guess, I would say it refers to Rey, Kylo and/or Leia, but in different ways. Honestly, though, I think just about anything is possible.
     
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  11. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebelscum

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    Rey is not and never was a Solo.

    How much clearer did The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi need to be in order to get that point across?

    Both The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi - especially the latter - made it absolutely clear that Rey is not - and never was - directly related by blood to Anakin's side of the Skywalker family tree, so the only way for her to be connected to that bloodline is for her to be descended from Shmi's paternal line via a male sibling.
     
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  12. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    I agree more than you probably believe about not only TLJ but TFA as well.
    And personally my first choice would be not only for Rey Unrelated, but for the Skywalker’s legacy to be passed
    to other people by virtue and not by blood. I’d find that an excellent and meaningful end for Saga.
    A great way to close the circle.

    That said, they can do whatever they want. That whatever might also be a Rey Sky or Solo.
    It may be more or less consistent and compelling. Still they can.
    And the point I was trying to make is that those specific quotes from an official source that
    is part of the promotional material /journey leading to ROS are interesting - imo - in that sense.

    Going to your idea, like I said, if she has to be a Skywalker, I simply I don’t see the point in terms of narrative of a cadet line. What’s the dramatic outcome? How could a reveal of that kind impact her story arc? But, surely that is not equal to say that is impossible.
    It is possible, just like - that’s where we don’t agree, I guess - pretty much everything else.

    But if I have to bet, I won’t bet on that.

    I’d rather bet on something even more “crazy” because I see seeds in TFA and in the little
    we know about ROS of something weird. Or a least, little pieces that may be used (if they want to)
    to do something like that.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
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  13. Trev

    Trev Rebel General

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    I have to disagree. If The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi made it “absolutely clear” that Rey isn’t a Skywalker or Solo, why are people still debating it after all this time? I actually think her being a nobody would work really nicely and I’m entirely on board with it, but I also don’t think we can rule anything out at this point. Nothing is off the table. Personally, I don’t think The Last Jedi would’ve gone the way it did if the ultimate plan was for her to be a Skywalker, unless they’re really trying to throw people for a loop. But I don’t think we can say anything will or won’t happen with absolute certainty at this point. Having her be a Skywalker/Solo seems less likely, but it is still possible.
     
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  14. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebelscum

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    Because they're stubborn and think that they know better than the people actually responsible for making and establishing Star Wars Canon.
     
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  15. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    I agree. That makes a lot of sense.

    Also, where did you get that page from? I can't read the text on the photo you posted very well :(
     
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  16. Trev

    Trev Rebel General

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    That’s not true, and besides, fans are allowed to speculate. J.J. and Daisy have both openly said we don’t know the full story with Rey’s parentage, and considering the context in which it was revealed to us –– in a conversation with one of the most untrustworthy characters in the film –– I think it’s legitimate for people to still have faith in Rey Solo or Rey Skywalker. It may not be as likely as Rey having no familial connection to the original trio, but there is nothing in canon that has explicitly told us otherwise. There are absolutely ways that Rey Solo or Rey Skywalker could still work after what we learned in The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, and if fans want to speculate on that, they have a right to without being judged for being “wrong.” If the filmmakers have openly acknowledged that we don’t know the full story regarding Rey’s parentage yet, you can’t rule out anything.
     
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  17. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebelscum

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    It is true.

    Shortly after The Force Awakens premiered in theaters - and continuing up to and beyond the release of The Last Jedi - numerous people associated with the Sequell Trilogy in specific and Star Wars as a brand in general went out of their way - in both official interviews and through their own personal Twitter accounts - to clarify, debunk, and disprove various theories and speculations regarding both The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, most of them related to Rey's parentage, Ben/Kylo's fall, and Luke's exile.

    Two of the most prevelent fan theories that were debunked were "Han, Leia, and Ben recognized Rey" (they didn't) and "Luke recognized Rey" (The Last Jedi specifically demonstrates that he doesn't).

    There's speculation, and then there's living in stubborn denial of reality.

    JJ and Rian Johnson have also both openly stated that they both independently reached the same conclusion regarding Rey's parentage, and "there's more to the story" doesn't by any means mean that TRoS is going to contradict things that were previously concretely established by both The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi, and, as mentioned, statements from individuals directly involved with the Sequel Trilogy and Lucasfilm.

    Despite the fact that they've been officially shot down numerous times over the past 2 1/2 years, "Rey is a Solo" and "Rey is Luke's daughter" are the two 'theories' that just won't die, but the fact that they won't die doesn't make them true or even remotely plausible, especially since, as noted, they've already been officially debunked again and again.
     
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  18. Trev

    Trev Rebel General

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    All of that is true, but at the same time, do you really think Pablo Hidalgo (or anyone else from the cast/crew/Lucasfilm) is going to outright admit who she is? Look, I’m fully aware that a lot of the theories out there a bit ridiculous and the likelihood of them being true is slim to none. But the legacy characters recognizing Rey and being related to Rey are two different things.

    For example, if Rey was kidnapped as a child –– perhaps even as an infant, before she would’ve really been recognizable –– then how would Han and Leia know who she was when they saw her? Han wasn’t Force sensitive and we don’t know how strong Leia is with the Force. They may have suspicions about her (which would support their strange behavior and inexplicable draw toward her). It’s certainly possible. The same could be said for Luke, as he had closed himself off from the Force for most of The Last Jedi, but I think it would require a little more explanation.

    I’m not saying that has a very high likelihood of happening, but that’s just one example of how they could easily make her related to one of the legacy characters without contradicting the previous two films.

    You don’t have to necessarily agree with or believe in the theories, but don’t tell other people to let them die when there is very clearly a way in which they could work.
     
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  19. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebelscum

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    Pablo, JJ, Daisy, Rian, and the various other individuals associated with Lucasfilm and the Sequel Trilogy were not obligated to provide the answers they did to the questions and fan speculations and theories that were running rampant in the months after TFA's release and leading up until the present, and they would not have gone out of their way to address said questions and fan speculations/theories if doing so would in any way be considered spoilery.

    This idea is one of the many things that has been debunked - repeatedly - by people like Pablo, so "You Get Nothing. You Lose. Good Day, Sir".

    The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi, and individuals directly associated with Lucasfilm and the Sequel Trilogy have made it abundantly - and blatantly - clear that Rey is not a Solo and is not related to Luke directly, and yet people continue to ignore the films themselves and those statements and act like "anything's possible" when some things are in fact concretely not possible.
     
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  20. p03

    p03 Force Sensitive

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    I was going to say that I never thought she was related because that would be a lie. I always thought it an outside chance and to be honest I still think there's a 10% chance of it happening. Actually even since the days of TFA I have said some stories or 'leaks' were not happening because they were and are better written than the actual material. However although I may disagree on the name situation am not going to get wound up and rude by the situation. You can't stop speculation and if it makes them happy let folks do it. There so much more harmful themes going on this trilogy, Rey's last name or lack of one ranks close to the bottom of anything I would class as disenchanted. I prefer the idea of spirituality and benevolence over basically eugenics anyway. But it still needs to be done right.
     
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