Why am I not excited for this film?

Truth. I actually rarely see people pointing out my reasons for disliking TLJ (chief among them the complete lack of well thought-out battle choreography, in my opinion).

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 28, 2019, Original Post Date: Aug 28, 2019 ---

Everything is politics. For the movie to not echo something contempary, it wouldn't be Star Wars.

 

As did ESB compared to ANH and AOTC compared to TPM.

DVDs and Blu-Rays sales are dropping off the cliff, DVD is basically dead and Blu-Ray is dying. So you really cant make any judgement based on physical media sales.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 28, 2019, Original Post Date: Aug 28, 2019 ---

Changes were made a couple weeks after TLJ came out. Then again for Black Panther and Captain Marvel. Finally they made proof of ticket purchase required for Aladdin.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 28, 2019 ---

Movies that were targeted for review bombing.

TLJ - Alt-Right targeted Star Wars after Rogue One when they said it was making anti Trump ideas as part of the film.
Black Panther - Still believe it has the highest RT critic score and among the lowest audience score.
Captain Marvel - Massive amount of negative reviews were up before movie release. SJW this SJW that. RT made changes and deleted all the reviews that were prior to release.
Aladdin

 

As I said, in France, we don't care about Trump and the Alt Right and the audience ratings are

BP : 3,9/5
CM : 3,7/5
TLJ : 2,8/5

Aladdin has a 4/5.

http://www.allocine.fr

 

I'm as excited and looking forward to TROS as I was all of them. If that makes the haters more hateful, then whatever.

 

Are you saying their is no far right movement in France and Europe. How does Allocine protect from review bombs? You know for a fact they have changed nothing over the last couple years? Notice that although Avengers, Avengers:IW and Avengers:Endgame all have poorer critical reviews then BP and yet on Allocine it is like the US where BP has lower audience review.

 

Yes, there is they do like 20% of the votes but they didn't attack movies as far as I know.

I didn't see BP but Infinity wars was very good ( IMHO ) and Endgame slighty worse.

They have 4,3 and 4,4 respectively.

I'm not talking about critics there, I only speak for audiences and they don't count 0/5 ratings in the process.

I rated IW : 4 and Endgame 3,5 for example and I gave a 5 to Coco.

Black Panther has a better audience ratings than the critics one for example. 6% of people rated it 0 and 22% rated it 5.

Captain Marvel : Critics 3,1 - Audience 3,7 - 7% for 0 and 14% for 5

The Last Jedi : Critics 3,5 - Audience 2,8 - 29% for 0 ( sic ) - 15% for 5

http://www.allocine.fr/film/fichefilm-215099/critiques/spectateurs/

I absolutely don't see the point between Far Right and The Last Jedi but I can see it for Black Panther but it absolutely doesn't reflect on the ratings.

For information : Rogue One : 3,7 - 4,1
TFA : 4,0 - 3,6
Solo : 2,6 - 3,5
Resistance : n/a - 2,7

 

I waited months to see Solo because I was so put off by TLJ. I’m glad I did, I was more “fresh” after not seeing a new SW film for over a year and it allowed me to really enjoy Solo. I enjoyed it enough (not a “great film” but a very fun movie) that I’ve gotten back a lot of my SW mojo and am very excited for TROS!

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 28, 2019, Original Post Date: Aug 28, 2019 ---

I hated TLJ... still bought the DVD.

#1 it’s still SW and it needs to be in the collection

#2 I was desperately hoping further viewings would make it grow on me. It kind of did... I went from loathing to tolerance

 

I feel the same, OP. I had very high hopes for TFA - it was a new Star Wars movie after all! Trailers were awesome, but the result... I absolutely agree with all who say there's too much "OT inspiration" there. An force sensitive orphan from the desert planet (leaving it on MF), ANOTHER Death Star firing and destroyed soon after (really?)... Then I had a relatively high hopes for TLJ. We finally had the opportunity to see Luke more. And then... Luke's character was wasted. Depressed, resigned Luke? No way, I'm not buying it at all. I think that it's quite saying that I watched it at the cinema and then I had no desire to watch it again ever after. I still have no desire to watch it. It's probably the first SW movie I wouldn't watch if I saw it playing on TV.

And now TROS - after TLJ I had low hopes. But when I've heard about Palpatine - that's a huge NO. First - it sounds really, really cheap and naive to bring him back somehow. And second - if he survived somehow - that's a spit in the face when it comes to Luke's and Anakin's actions on the DS. They killed him - that was always the outcome for me. A victory for both of them. But if Palpatine survived - it was pointless.

We all know that love blinds. I think that a lot of fans are blind to the flaws of the new trilogy - for example poor and lazy writing. Others may have their bars simply set low and be pleased even with cheap tricks. That's why I value my brother's and dad's opinion - brother is not a SW fan at all, he just brings his kids to the cinema with him. Dad likes SW, but he's definitly not a fan. That's why I think they are more unbiased than many people on this forum. And their opinions were mostly negative. Dad liked TFA, brother immediately said it's "just ideas from older SW movies over and over again". After TLJ their mutual opinion was "they ran out of ideas", meaning "they had no idea how to write a good story, so they created this abomination".
I didn't like Solo, but I didn't disliked it either. When I bought a blu-ray dad managed to reach the scene on Mimban (?) and said "why did they even made this movie? It's bad".

So yeah - the Star Wars' bar was dropped pretty low.

Right now I'm actually hyped only for Obi-Wan series. I loved Ewan's Obi-Wan (as seen on my avatar) and I love Obi-Wan as a character. So seeing him again (and in a tv show, not a movie, so it'll be longer) will be awesome, even if they screw the screen script again. PT wasnt written very well after all, yet Ewan managed to shine.

 

I loved TFA and felt burned by TLJ (since then I have come to terms with the movie in hopes that it will have a better context after TROS.) My point is that I feel TROS will be more in the vein of TFA than TLJ, so I think I'll really enjoy it. You still have to view each SW movie as their own entity as that is the best to way to avoid getting caught up in one movie you didn't love/like. ANH is a movie that is best viewed in the context where nobody is related and it's a strong standalone movie. Should you get mad at the OT story because Leia smooched Luke in ESB, yet they are then related in ROTJ? The same goes for the ST as Force Ghost Luke may do some awesome thing in TROS to save the day for Rey, so you shouldn't write off the whole Trilogy cause you didn't like his arc in TLJ.

I guess my point is that for years and years I tried to tie these movies together and it never works for one reason or another (I think because they are always written without a plan and aren't like The Lord of the Rings where they are taken from an existing story). But when I view them as their entity in their own context, you can enjoy them for what they are. Which leads to the OP's question, and I still think you can enjoy TROS without being hyped because of TLJ. If you get lost in the TROS story and enjoy where it is going, how the characters are portrayed, and how it ends, than that's what matters. There are always going to be things we don't like from the franchise as I don't love the Ewoks, but it's not going to prevent me from enjoying ROTJ.

I hope that makes sense?

 

It shouldn't even have to be a consideration on your love or anticipation of a movie whether or not someone else likes it or not. The only reason I addressed @cawatrooper was because it seemed to me to be arguing both points. First that it's a tiny minority of unhappy fans and second that caused LFL to change the schedule. It strikes me as the likely scenario would be one or the other if it was clear, it's not therefore LFL's slow down until things become clearer.

Anyways, I apologize to the OP for derailing his thread for a bit, obviously there's still quite a bit of emotion regarding this without any consensus. If you're looking forward to the movie, I hope you love it, and if you're not, I hope it's great too and you wind up taking it in. I don't think your level of anticipation will affect anyone's opinion, it shouldn't in any case.

 

You're not alone. I damn near hyperventilated when I saw the very first trailer for TFA. The idea that SW was coming back had me over the moon. I could not wait to see TFA. I couldn't wait to talk to other people about it. I found forums (like this one) to discuss SW ad infinitum. I wanted to talk with others about it and what it all meant. TLJ changed all that.

TLJ and its PR arm suggested to me the people who owned SW didn't really get SW. They understood it as Intellectual Property, but they didn't get what made it magic, what made it special, what made us fans for 40+ years. They seemed to understand well enough how to make "a" movie, but no clue on how to make a "Star Wars" movie; especially one that was part of a greater story arc. No one who signed off on the Luke Skywalker we got in TLJ could convince me they understand the magic of Star Wars.

And now these same people are not only attempting to salvage the Sequel trilogy with this next movie, but to wrap up an anthology spanning 40 years that they have just demonstrated they don't understand? No, I am not excited. I'm worried.

 

Not being excited about TROS is completely undestandable by me. This is the worst thing that TLJ made to the franchise.

TFA had flaws and wasn't that original, but TLJ really messed things up. It is not that I didn't like it or that I am stuck to my own ideas, but it took a beloved character, the cornerstone of the franchise (along with Anakin/Vader) and mishandled it. Not because he was resigned and depressed, I could even make peace with his intention to kill Ben, but because he was not used properly later in the movie. For me, his death was completely unnecessary, he still had things to give to the story.

Then all this war in the social media and in here about it, wears you out... It is hard to love something when all you see is "Disney killed it", "TLJ sucks", "Make ep.8 again" etc... It just ruins my day to see people hating on SW and the sequel trilogy that much...

Another thing is that, the way TLJ ended, it felt more like an ep. 9 than 8... It is like they told Rian Johnson to wrap up the saga! I can't blame him only, because there is a team that obviously approved all of these, but we have Snoke out, Luke out, Leia out (I can't believe that she will have more than 5 mins screentime in TROS), the Resistance shattered, the first order and Kylo in control... There is really no sense of continuity, something to expect, something the "oh I'm so eager to see this"...

I don't know if things were planned all along to be this way and if Palpatine was to be the antagonist of this trilogy since day one. But it feels like they are opening a new chapter right now, one that can't be both opened and closed in just one movie. Unless of course if all this "END OF A SAGA" is a nonsense and we will see episodes 10-12 sooner or later, which I actually believe regardless of the TROS ending...

Personally, I am now starting to get a little more excited about TROS, mostly because of my curiosity to see what they are up to. The Palpatine trick has worked well, the Dark Rey even more, but I am still holding a small basket because all these can mean nothing and we will just see another Kylo vs Rey, a space battle, a big weapon destroyed and that's all...

 

Spar, I consider you a great person, but I'm not really sure how I can make it any more clear how tired and bored I am of this discussion in general.

That being said, just to clear this up, sorry if you got that impression. All I was saying was, a lot of what people are complaining about has been addressed, and what little we've seen of TROS is at the very least intriguing, and that it would be cool if we just dropped the constant Eeyore-level moping for a while.

Yet here we are still. Not to call you out or anything, but that statement in my original post alone (of just wanting some sort of reprieve from this all) has demonstrably prompted you to type out paragraphs and paragraphs across three posts, unprompted. The original post wasn't even about you!

Like, can you see how ridiculous and depressingly ironic that is, from my point of view?

Anyway, I'm out of this discussion. Maybe these forums as a whole, if this ceaseless drone keeps up (hmm, what was that sentiment so many once discussed about the "Hated the movie" thread being a place for the complainers so they didn't constantly bother everyone else?).

I want to go into TROS fully enjoying its potential, not tainted by the opinions of people chronically obsessed with posting about how much they disliked TLJ since (looks at calendar) for the past 622 days.

Time to let old things die, I guess.

 

I do understand the frustration, in its way it goes both ways. You're frustrated that those who didn't like TLJ are down on TROS, but there is no helping that, considering TROS will be built upon the foundation of TLJ, which anyone who dislikes it will find problematic. There's just no way around it. Can it improve upon TLJ and the ST, sure, but I don't see how it can do that without upsetting the fandom who love TLJ, as it would have to at the very least look at TLJ from a very different pov. I don't see how JJ can do that to everyone's satisfaction.

As for the hated the movie thread, it seems those threads won't exist moving forward, so now when discussing TROS, displeased fans will have little choice but to voice their opinion in other threads. Skepticism included. I'm sure some of us will leave too, it's inevitable. Hopefully something comes up that helps heal the fandom after the ST.

Since we can't have our "own" threads, which I think is a good thing, there are just a few options available. Avoid talking or acknowledging those who are down on the ST or TROS or TLJ ect. I think that would be the best route. I'm not saying don't talk to me, I'm saying don't talk to me when you anticipate the conversation going in a direction you find upsetting or disheartening, or read it and only acknowledge those things you want to talk about.

Another is keep adding honey to their vinegar, allow your optimism to counter their pessimism. I can attest that that works to some extent, but I have to admit it would probably be exhausting to take on.

The last viable option to you (imo) is to counter or offer opposition or confrontation. I'm not a huge fan of that one, but it depends how its done and it's certainly a route that could be taken, and seems to some extent to be yours atm. Then that inevitably drags you into this, which seems to work counter to what you're looking for.

I guess lastly, as you stated, is removing yourself from the discussion entirely, and I find that sad and hope you don't, however at the same time you are free to chose what is best for you. I've done so at times, sometimes a break is good.

This is what's called an impasse. I can't love TLJ, and therefor I can't feel optimistic about TROS. You love TLJ, so you can't help but feel optimistic about TROS. The only way I see us getting along is not complaining about other people voicing their opinion, the opinion opposite to ours. I see many posts on TLJ that are positive that I just leave alone. Yet if you call out people who didn't like TLJ, or are not optimistic about TROS, even if not directed at me, it feels that way, because I identify with them.

I make a point not to address people's positive opinions on TROS or TLJ. When it's an open question I offer my honest opinion or the way I feel in regards to the question. I try and stay neutral, as I do try to offer speculation of my own without always being a drag, but in some instances when opinion is asked for to an open audience, I offer mine honestly. My goal isn't to ruin anything for anyone, it's merely an opinion. If you are not interested in exploring my thinking on the subject (or that of others) I would think the best avenue is to ignore it and not feed into it, and to not call it out, because that invites a response. But please, don't take this as any kind of recommendation or order, I'm just trying to inform you on how I'll likely react to posts that address my (or the general) lack of enthusiasm.

As much as it sucks for you to hear the lack of enthusiasm, those who don't feel enthusiastic find it sucks to not look forward to a SW movie that is built upon TLJ.

Sorry for writing paragraph upon paragraph again, and yes, I do see the irony. I'll try to make this my last message directed to you on this subject.

 

I'm not excited for the movie, but then I was put off by TFA, which I thought undermined so much of what went before, as for TLJ I have only seen Ivan Ortega's cut which made it passably watchable, I have no desire to see the version with the tossed lightsabre and seacow milking. I was very disappointed with where Star Wars was going and while I have no desire to watch TROS I'm actually feeling pretty good about Star Wars now. TFA put me off watching Disney Star Wars movies but I recently bought Rogue One on DVD and found that it was a thoroughly enjoyable movie and while it included classic characters it was the new characters that made the movie so good, it was a spin off movie that didn't really do any world building, but it was very stylish, well paced and had excellent characters. So it did show me that it is possible for Disney to make a good Star Wars movie, even if I find their batting average is poor. I have had two goes at watching Solo and haven't yet made it to the end, I found the pacing bad, didn't care for the characters and wasn't impressed with it visually.
Yet I feel that there is plenty of Star Wars for me, I bought up a stock of 2nd hand Star Wars novels, I'm currently near the end of Vector Prime and I found it to be really enjoyable, I've read and enjoyed a few of Jude Watson's young adult works and have more to dip into. There are also plenty of comics so I feel I have plenty of Star Wars material. There are 7 movies i love, both versions of the Clone Wars, I'm not very partial to the characters in Rebels but season 2 had some good stuff in it.
On top of that the Mandalorian looks like it will be good and we're getting a final season of Clone Wars.
The way I see it is that there is a wealth of Star Wars that I already enjoy and plenty more books and comics to explore and on top of that there might be the odd good movie or TV series. But another movie by the guy that made the TFA in a trilogy that i think would have been better not to have been made, no I'm not excited by that.

 

Movies and the themes they seek to depict are a product of their times. So, I do think we will get some subtle political commentary. But, then again I think all movies are inherently “political” to some degree because they’re reflections of society.

 

The self-righteous hatred from both sides after TLJ sucked all the fun out of Star Wars for me. The fun hasn't really come back either since the fighting hasn't stopped. So, at this point, I'm hoping Episode IX is able to unite the fanbase in some way. If we could get back to how things were after TFA/before TLJ that would be awesome; but I am not that naive. Everyone has drawn their line in the sand and is just pig-in-blast happy to die on whatever hill they've chosen (three metaphors in one sentence! Achievement Unlocked!).

It got so bad that I while I consider myself a fan of Star Wars, I don't like to consider myself a "Star Wars fan" these days, if that makes sense. The "with us or against" mentality should have no place in an entertainment medium like this. Depending on what happens after Episode IX, I'll either be very happy or I'll be having a HUGE sale on eBay and simply closing the Star Wars chapter of my life. :-( I desperately hope it's the former.

Help me, JJ Abrams; you're my only hope.

I saw all the prequel films in theaters -- that "split" of the fanbase is a joke compared to what social media has cultivated in the 2010s. :,-(

 

To borrow from Collider, this is the order of future projectsI am looking foward to seeing.

1. Mandalorian
2. Obi One
3. Caddian Andor
4. TROS
5. Clone Wars

 

I don’t think things will change with TROS as most fans have dug in. I saw it with Solo as fans boycotted even if I told them it’s a good movie and shouldn’t be collateral damage to TLJ.

I say this because the SW YouTube community has become predictable as I usually know how they will react before I click on. Once I saw countless YT videos complaining about the TROS poster released last week, I knew the civil war won’t end anytime soon.

The best thing to do is stay off social media regarding SW (trust me I have a tough time avoiding it too) because both sides just poison the hype. It won’t stop because polarization sells and catering to a specific base of people is the thing to do in the era of cable tv, social media, talk radio, etc.

 

Seriously. Such a shame because although I half-hate, half-love TLJ, I thought Solo was great!!!! It is terrible that Solo essentially paid the price for TLJ's failures.

Dead on. People generally don't seem to realize that polarization of any kind is poisonous to us individuals, yet a nutritious and balanced breakfast to those who live off ratings/buzz/clicks, etc. Even the studios that make the media are glad to stoke the hatred between fans because they know it gets them all kinds of free publicity, virtue points, and a feeling among some fans that giving money to HUGE, monopolistic corporations is some kind of activism?? O_o

I have largely cut myself off from social media for these reasons. But, you're correct, any time I dip my toe back in there's an equal amount of hater boycotts as there is blind shill support.

This video explains the entire dynamic rather well. And it's a real shame because the typical would-be fan is the only one who really loses :-(