Official Finn Episode VIII thread

I would have liked this quite a lot. It would have given Rose the character development she needed and Finn an opportunity to show he has learned the lesson.

And Phasma would still be alive! So winners all around :b

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 11, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 11, 2018 ---

Excuse me for not reading (Or watching?) Before the Awakening... I was just using the film as my only reference, how dare I, I know.

 

Why on earth am I supposed to be invested in this trilogy, when Disney/Lucasfilm is willing to allow such a toxic and badly written relationship to go forward? Why do so many hellbent upon this relationship? It is just so damn toxic. Rey becoming attracted to a man who had just DAYS EARLIER kidnapped her, murdered his father before her eyes, tried to mind rape her, nearly killed her closest friend and tried to kill her . . . DAYS EARLIER. It is just so wrong on so many levels. I never thought that Star Wars fans would end up advocating the rape fantasy trope.

Why was it the wrong choice? Because Rose (and Rian Johnson) said so? Vice Admiral Holdo was allowed to sacrifice herself, but not Finn? That doesn't even make sense to me. I don't want Finn to die. But I refuse to criticize his action on Crait, when no one is willing to criticize Holdo's actions. This hypocrisy in regard to Finn is just sickening.

This is a sick joke. Rose as Finn's mentor? He didn't need her. He knew more about what it meant to be a slave than she ever would. And yet, Johnson had her 'splainning to him about slavery? I didn't whether to laugh or throw up when I first saw that scene.

I don't dislike Rose. I dislike how Johnson handled her character. I can only hope that Abrams will do a better job.

 

This why so many of us wanted Finn to be on his own. Away from Rey, so he can become his own man, but then Rian comes along with Rose to do the same thing JJ did, but in a worse way. This is also why I thought it was important for Finn to know who he was. I'm sick of the questions about Rey and her background, but none about Finn. The Star Wars universe is too small for it to be such a big deal.

If Finn was written the way any other Star Wars hero was, Rey wouldn't be accused of being a Mary Sue.

 

It's interesting to see positive talk about the Hangar Fight. His confrontation against Phasma was uninspired and largely manufactured (like many other aspects of the movie) not for the sake of the character but for the visuals (see also Holdo's Hyperspace Attack, Leia Poppins, and Rey's Hall of mirrors).

The thing that people never say but that I believe is true is that Michael Bay could have just as easily written and directed TLJ. But I don't think Bay would be pretentious and dishonest about what he had put together when it went "into the can". When he gives you an action movie, the action is the main character, and everyone else is a support character (and the audience knows it). Rian pretended that he made a movie about challenging the characters. He didn't. What he did was stitch together visuals with fixed plot points and squeezed the characters into that story even if process deformed established profiles.

A shiny suit, an electric baton, and explosions in the background satisfies people who don't really care about Finn anyway. If he is actually one of your favorites your ability to believe and enjoy his journey is beset with a myriad of issues that precede (and really call into question in the first place) why Finn was facing off against Phasma. Having a final showdown with someone who is re-imagined as your nemesis in the Final Act? Short shrift fight choreography, the utter absence of tension, and anticlimactic conclusion? Rose figuratively and literally dragging Finn into position again? One abbreviated side kick fight scene where he is only granted victory through serendipity is hardly something to praise.

Now for some people, Finn wasn't their favorite. They're indifferent to what he does. If forced to examine his arc in TLJ, they probably don't like it. But they wouldn't have a problem with him becoming a Jedi or a Bounty Hunter or a Resistance foot soldier or none of the above. They don't have a dog in that race. But that's different than the people who engage in strategic praise of a lackluster arc and storyline in hope that he is given more of the same because it effectively denies him the relevance they never wanted him to have in the first place.

As often as the claim that Finn is supposed to be the Han character their autonomy, agency, proficiency and relevance could not be more starkly contrasted. Han had all four from the beginning, Finn still doesn't after two feature length movies.

 

Never have I heard an audience wanting a main character to be less than other characters in a film. On top of that they also expect a movie with less interesting characters to be a major blockbuster. TLJ was divisive, because the audience became divided after TFA. A lot of people obviously were uncomfortable with Boyega having a major impact on the movie. Hence every question going forward ignores him, and creates this picture that he isn't significant to the story. Rian Johnson's version of Star Wars reflects that division, and obviously he sided with those who are uncomfortable with Boyega being a major character. That same desire to ignore him also made for a bad film. This is why TLJ makes no sense as a continuation story. Rian wasn't trying to continue the story. He wanted to change the story from Rey and Finn to Rey and Kylo.

 

Was Luke not his own man because he learned from Obi-Wan and then from Yoda? Why is it wrong for Finn to learn from Rose? This idea that it's somehow beneath him to learn from Rose silly.

You point still stands though. It's natural to assume Finn sees the world differently than someone like Rose because he's been a part of the First Order for almost his entire life.

Shocking I know! People actually love The Last Jedi! Finn's "Rebel Scum" quote is one of the best lines in lines in the film upon rewatch.

There's no agenda against Finn. Finn is most definitely a major character in The Last Jedi.

 

Finn may have been a major character in "The Last Jedi", but I do not believe Johnson did a good job in handling the character. Finn's recovery from the major injury that he had sustained in "The Force Awakens" was treated as comic relief. Through Rose, Johnson had Finn learn lessons about slavery (something he should have known more about than her) and about self-sacrifice - something Vice Admiral Holdo was apparently allowed to do, but not him. In fact, Johnson had Rose take away Finn's choice not only on Crait, but also aboard the Resistance ship, when he tried to leave in order to find Rey and warn her about the Resistance-First Order situation going on. It seemed according to Johnson, we're supposed to condemn Snoke inflicting his will upon Rey and Ren, but it was okay for Rose to do the same to Finn.

 

I think Finn's fight with Phasma only exists because they knew people would complain if Finn didn't have a fight. The problem with that is it's the 'only' reason it exists. The scene being in the movie doesn't make it good anymore than Finn, Rose and Poe being in the movie means it has good rep for people of color.

The length of it coupled with the clear lack of detail in the choreography in comparison to the throne room scene as well as the circumstances of Finn's victory suggests strongly to me that it was an afterthought. Let's also add the fact that Phasma is such an afterthought. They could have added a little more gravitas to the fight if they had simply included even a single scene that shows her as a major decision-maker within the First Order by having her in on the plans with Kylo and Hux. As it stands, all she is in the movies is the stormtroopers's ground commander. Neither Hux, Kylo or Snoke seem to care that she even existed much less that she died. Yet this is who we want to be Finn's main nemesis? Even as Hux is made the main nemesis of Poe who is a supporting character?

I don't really mind the former but the latter really confuse me. Why would you not want all the characters to shine when that makes for a more well-received movie?

 

If I must be brutally honest, I feel that the throne room fight was a joke and badly choreographed. As for Finn and Phasma's fight . . . I thought there really wasn't much there.

 

I agree I was really just making the point that there wasn't much thought or care put into it.

 

I'm still trying to wrap my head around why Rian took this project in the first place. It's obvious he isn't a big fan of Star Wars, and he wasn't interested in making a film with layers. What was he in it for then?

 

I get it. You guys really hate this movie. It clouds your ability to discuss this film in a reasonable matter so can you please just take it to the hate thread where it's appreciated. It's not good for the forum for a devoted few to complain about every topic about much they hated the movie.

I love talking about the The Last Jedi, but every time I come here the same people come to rain on the parade.

 

I'm curious what your definition of "bashing the film" is since apparently those hyperbolic statements I quoted didn't reach the threshold.

Anyway... if the mods think constant negatively in every thread is good for business who am I to disagree?

Bash away!

 

That's because they never wanted main character status for Finn. They wanted Argyle the Limo Driver in Die Hard. Out of the way, largely irrelevant. Allowed to make a small contribution. Same people crowing about Finn in TLJ would have you believe that Argyle was a "very important character" in Die Hard. They're not fooling anyone.

Such a powerful line. A line so profound that reference to it on this very forum is almost non-existent. If it weren't for my posts talking about it the total count would probably be in single digits. Crazy eh?

I think it's in the movie because Rian thought of the visual first (that he wanted to shoot) and then force fed characters into the scene.

I think the scene was a forethought. Rian was intent on having a sparkly fight, how it would be choreographed certainly was an after thought. Watching the scene it's hard to imagine any effort was put into the choreography or that much rehearsal was necessary to master it. If they spent more than a day doing either I'd be surprised. And it's wild because I think John himself led many of us to believe that this was going to be really intense when he talked about how physical everything was this time around and posting pics on Instagram of how he got in shape.

 

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 21, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 21, 2018 ---

There has been an agenda against finn since before TFA. everyone voiced their opinions against him being a Jedi before they even found out what he would become, many ppl also ignore him when talking about future episodes, also saying he doesn’t have to be “this” or “that” to be badass. They were/are subliminaly telling Lucasfilm to grant their wishlist

 

And Lucasfilm (via Rian) obliged them.

It's funny how after TLJ, you no longer heard claims or comparisons of Finn to Han since Finn's lack of plot and story line influence could no longer be denied. Then people pivoted and said, "well he's not FS so no he's not going to be as relevant" LOL. What a time to be alive.

 

When people make statements like that I can only attribute that to a gross misunderstanding of George Lucas's intent for Star Wars. But then that's what happens when the now Legends canon and video games focus almost exclusively on the Jedi. People come away thinking that they're the only people that really matter in Star Wars. So I can't really blame those fans that much. It doesn't help that TLJ just fanned the flames so to speak by making Finn less relevant than he was in TFA.