1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

3 Reasons only Ben Solo can successfully re-start the Jedi Order

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by techsteveo, Apr 23, 2018.

  1. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2014
    Posts:
    2,350
    Likes Received:
    3,741
    Trophy Points:
    13,667
    Credits:
    5,575
    Ratings:
    +6,696 / 297 / -173
    Having Ben Solo die as Kylo Ren, the Villian, doesn’t feel right. To me that would destroy the entire Skywalker/Solo legacy. The son of Han and Leia and the student of Luke Skywalker turned out to be a two bit villian. I hope that doesn’t happen.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Funny Funny x 1
  2. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2015
    Posts:
    1,561
    Likes Received:
    2,029
    Trophy Points:
    7,592
    Credits:
    3,811
    Ratings:
    +3,509 / 217 / -41
    not that it matters that much now, but I hope Kylo/Ben is killed off in the end. Not sure what is worse, Rey without training starting the Jedi order or evil killer Kylo/Ben. Both scenarios are horrible. :eek:
     
    • Wise Wise x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  3. laamis

    laamis Rebel Trooper

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2018
    Posts:
    41
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    177
    Credits:
    303
    Ratings:
    +102 / 2 / -0
    what if Rey were to fall to the dark side and Kylo Ren turn back to the light side? that would be something interesting but i don't see how that could happen.
    still, that would leave an option for Ben to rebuild the jedi order
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Original Original x 1
  4. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2014
    Posts:
    2,350
    Likes Received:
    3,741
    Trophy Points:
    13,667
    Credits:
    5,575
    Ratings:
    +6,696 / 297 / -173
    That’s a really simplistic and cynical way to look at it. Kylo has been conflicted this entire trilogy so he can go either way. I just think a redeemed and light side Ben Solo is the best person to restart a new order of Jedi.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  5. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Posts:
    10,000
    Likes Received:
    141,310
    Trophy Points:
    173,077
    Credits:
    68,818
    Ratings:
    +157,628 / 65 / -7
    while i don't want to see Ben build the Jedi order specifically, i do like your thoughtful take on his character in the context of what Star Wars teaches us, and also very much appreciate your optimism! : D
     
    • Like Like x 5
  6. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2014
    Posts:
    2,350
    Likes Received:
    3,741
    Trophy Points:
    13,667
    Credits:
    5,575
    Ratings:
    +6,696 / 297 / -173
    Maybe he doesn't rebuild but can just be a consultant? :D

    I think my theory/speculation is really based on the not wanting to see the Legacy of the Big 3 completely wrecked while keeping with the classic Star Wars themes of redemption and learning from failure.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  7. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Posts:
    3,223
    Likes Received:
    72,356
    Trophy Points:
    171,705
    Credits:
    23,622
    Ratings:
    +78,149 / 26 / -13
    I'm not sure that Ben can ever actually be a Jedi in the traditional sense. he can't ever forget what he did, and either he will never forgive himself or he won't think he needs forgiveness... either way it's not a recipe for success.

    i personally think that if there is to be Force sensitives being trained at the end of ep9... it will be Rey and Ben running it together, but Ben will be exactly as he is now.

    how Ben is now is down to personal opinion, but i think that he is no longer consumed by the dark side and no longer scared of the light. We saw in TLJ that Rey is absolutely not afraid to face the dark side (to the point that it shocked Luke).

    the old Jedi ways have failed every time. they must learn from failure and try something new.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  8. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Posts:
    10,000
    Likes Received:
    141,310
    Trophy Points:
    173,077
    Credits:
    68,818
    Ratings:
    +157,628 / 65 / -7
    absolutely! on both points! : D

    balance!!! : D
     
    • Like Like x 7
  9. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Brood Brother
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2016
    Posts:
    2,956
    Likes Received:
    46,129
    Trophy Points:
    171,477
    Credits:
    14,039
    Ratings:
    +52,633 / 9 / -3
    I like this, and I agree. His largest and most powerful dark side and light side influences are now gone in both Snoke and Luke respectively. Kylo Ren is free to become Ben Solo again.. for better or worse. I still see the theme of "let go of the past" continuing, mainly in the sense of the Jedi and Sith ending. There were enough literal hints in TFA and TLJ, and enough of Rey blurring the line between light and dark to finally drop the labels once and for all. Of course, the foil to all of that is Luke's final speech to Ren on Crait. "I am not the last Jedi..."

    I don't think IX will end with Rey and/or Ben training anyone, and don't think they should be in that position right now. If anything, I think it would be cool to see them drop any ideas of being "masters" they may have gotten from being such powerful force users. Instead, I'd like to see them set out on a galactic adventure in which they both seek more knowledge and understanding of the galaxy and the force, and essentially continue their own training (which, I would argue, should never be complete). Pretty similar to what @LadyMusashi proposed earlier. That concept would also set up endless possibilities of future Episode installments, or trilogies, or spinoffs, or whatever.

    At any rate, I do agree with the original notion by @techsteveo that a redemption of Ben Solo is necessary for this story to continue on, and to continue on with the proper message and themes.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  10. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2015
    Posts:
    1,561
    Likes Received:
    2,029
    Trophy Points:
    7,592
    Credits:
    3,811
    Ratings:
    +3,509 / 217 / -41
    For me the big 3 and especially Luke is already wrecked beyond repair.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Posts:
    4,638
    Likes Received:
    101,388
    Trophy Points:
    171,517
    Credits:
    54,460
    Ratings:
    +109,686 / 161 / -32
    It's amazing how opinions can differ. For me the big 3 aren't wrecked at all. Han was Han in TFA (maybe that was a little bit boring). Luke was almost exactly like I wanted him to be in TLJ (a realistic development compared to the nonsense in the old EU). Leia is the only one I'm not sure about yet. We have to wait and see how they will deal with her character in IX.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  12. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Posts:
    3,223
    Likes Received:
    72,356
    Trophy Points:
    171,705
    Credits:
    23,622
    Ratings:
    +78,149 / 26 / -13
    as @NinjaRen said.. it's amazing how differently we all view Han/Leia/Luke at this stage of the saga.
    I personally think Han was that absolute legend in TFA that i remember from 30 years ago. more so infact.. he stepped up to the plate AGAIN when the galaxy was under threat, and then he gave his life saving his son (and yes - i think he saved his son on that bridge)

    Leia i believe was set for a grand stand episode 9 with her son, but i think she was absolutely awesome in TLJ (every scene imo)

    Luke could not be a wise and all powerful Jedi Master.. he had to have fallen in some way else we had no sequal trilogy. Look at what he did at the end of TLJ - we have never even heard of a use of the force like that before.. it was staggering what he did. staggering!
    The only way that Snoke and the FO could get a foot hold in the galaxy was by Snoke getting to Ben and breaking them both emotionally.. Luke + Ben + Luke's academy jedi would have been far too powerful for the FO and Snoke.

    what exactly should Luke have done? ignored what he saw in Ben's head and continue his training and try to save him like he did with Anakin?... that involved light sabers as well lest we remember, and ultimately.. Anakin's choice and Anakin's death.

    Should Luke have followed Rey and got back in the fight? If Luke had gone with Rey to Crait, then either Ben kills him (and that would have pushed Ben full dark side again) or Luke kills Ben.. not sure anyone would want to see Luke kill his nephew on the big screen?

    Luke instead used the force to give his nephew one final lesson... he used the force to buy time for the resistance to escape, and most of all he used the force to give the entire galaxy a spark of hope.
    it gives me chills just thinking about what Luke did, and then the twin suns... wow.
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  13. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2014
    Posts:
    4,391
    Likes Received:
    5,585
    Trophy Points:
    16,317
    Credits:
    6,685
    Ratings:
    +9,458 / 246 / -104
    You don't have to like Kylo but you can't call him 2 bit villain.
    1- His betrayal wrecked the Happy Ending of the Big 3. Luke did not rebuild the Jedi. Han and Leia did not live happily ever after. Before TFA even starts Kylo has hurt the heroes more than any of the other villains in the Saga.
    2- He also has achieved what Vader never did. Kill his master and assume the throne of the Entire Galaxy.

    Do you really think there is NO Skywalker or Solo legacy if Kylo dies. Is legacy only measured by prodigy or do our actions, ideals and efforts live on in those that continue to take the torch further.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  14. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2014
    Posts:
    2,350
    Likes Received:
    3,741
    Trophy Points:
    13,667
    Credits:
    5,575
    Ratings:
    +6,696 / 297 / -173
    I get what you're saying, but it's not too late for a happy ending for the last living Skywalker/Solo.

    It would be one thing if Rey was the symbolic adopted Skywalker/Solo. Trouble is, she had a troubled relationship with Luke and will get no on-screen time with Leia in IX. If Rey and Luke actually made a Master/Apprentice connection and had a relationship then it could have worked.

    If the end credits roll and Ben Solo dies as Kylo Ren, going down a pit like Palpatine or something, then this entire trilogy was a waste of time. Yes, the legacy of our heroes would be completely destroyed. It's on shaky ground right now since they are responsible 100% for Kylo Ren. If he returns to being Ben Solo and finally follows in his parents and uncle's footsteps, bringing peace and hope to the galaxy, then the legacy and everything they fought for will still have meaning.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
  15. The Nerf Herder!

    The Nerf Herder! Rebel General

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2015
    Posts:
    108
    Likes Received:
    240
    Trophy Points:
    3,657
    Credits:
    954
    Ratings:
    +351 / 7 / -1
    Honestly, Ben Solo dying as Kylo Ren Un-redeemed would not do justice to the big 3’s story at all. Just because he killed Han, doesn’t mean that he is not redeemable either. I believe that in order for Han Solo’s death to have purpose, Ben needs to see the error of his ways and be redeemed.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Wise Wise x 1
  16. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2015
    Posts:
    1,561
    Likes Received:
    2,029
    Trophy Points:
    7,592
    Credits:
    3,811
    Ratings:
    +3,509 / 217 / -41
    Yes, we indeed have seen a completely different movie, because for me Luke was portrayed as a full failure and I'm not the only one who got this perception. He died with his legacy beeing destroyed by himself. Indeed he wanted to die before and he managed to succeed in the end with the Jedi dying too. Rey superhero will start whatever these new 'Avengers' of hers will be called.

    At least Kylo dying unredeemed in the most painful way would be something I could laugh a little about.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Posts:
    4,638
    Likes Received:
    101,388
    Trophy Points:
    171,517
    Credits:
    54,460
    Ratings:
    +109,686 / 161 / -32
    Maybe you didn't notice it, but Luke achieved two huge things:
    1) He saved the Resistance.
    2) He pushed Kylo's redemption even further. Think about it. Kylo wants to kill his family to destroy all his inner light. But Luke was one step ahead of his nephew and killed himself. Now Kylo can never ever get full dark side. Luke is a genius and troll at the same time.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
    • Wise Wise x 1
  18. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2015
    Posts:
    1,561
    Likes Received:
    2,029
    Trophy Points:
    7,592
    Credits:
    3,811
    Ratings:
    +3,509 / 217 / -41
    1.) He saved only his sister and a handul of now called rebels. Nothing worth mentioning in the big picture, because we had broom boy who got the rebel ring from Rose, so he could have started a rebellion on his own in IX.
    2.) Kylo killed his father, tortured Rey and killed millions of people on the blown up planets. If this is not full dark side, then I have no idea what you see as dark side.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
  19. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Posts:
    4,638
    Likes Received:
    101,388
    Trophy Points:
    171,517
    Credits:
    54,460
    Ratings:
    +109,686 / 161 / -32
    Of course it's worthing mentioning in the big picture. They can regroup now and strike back. Without Luke the war would have been over.

    "Remember that the darkest hour of all is the hour before day."
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Wise Wise x 1
  20. panki

    panki Rebel Commander

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2017
    Posts:
    343
    Likes Received:
    471
    Trophy Points:
    2,792
    Credits:
    1,058
    Ratings:
    +762 / 12 / -3
    If Kylo survives the trilogy, I can see him taking the Barash vow as a penance, disengaging from everything but the force and living near some old jedi temple.

    As for Rey, she doesn't need traditionally trained jedi to help her if she sets up a new version of the jedi with no political ties and no fixed base of operations. She can always get guidance from Maz and force ghost Luke. I would personally like them to bring Ahsoka into the movies somehow.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...

Share This Page