A reply to most of the TLJ negative criticism.

Exactly- the thing about Luke by Return of the Jedi is not that he was plotting the murder of Vader. He really did want to save his father.

It's only when tempers rose that he gave into anger and passion- the way of the Sith- and really let loose.

You see the same thing with Luke in TLJ- he gives into a moment of fear and passion, but we see him really think about it and change his mind. Luke was not perfect, but he strove to be the best that he could.

 

Awesome thread!

Luke only thought about killing Kylo for a split second just like he did with Vader when he let loose.

 

Actually, I do not have a problem with him having that moment in TLJ. All humans have negative thoughts like that but they do not always act on them. Ben was probably just looking for an excuse to be bad. But after he survived, he would not have gone into hiding for years. If he really wanted to never be found, why would he have left clues in TFA. The reality is the TLJ story is just disjointed, it did not build, very well, on what TFA put forward. Luke Skywalker would have tried to pursue his nephew to turn him back. I am sorry, he would not have gone hid on an island for years and never tried to save his nephew. Luke Skywalker would have never refused a request from Leia to help especially after he found out Ben killed Han.

 

And he was simply a dude who would never give up.

 

I really don't see how you can compare the two situations, Vader was Luke's enemy in a war and he had already done terrible things and he only considered killing him in the heat of battle. In that situation Luke's anger and the temptation to kill Vader was perfectly relatable, the compassion and wisdom he shows at that point is admirable. Luke choose to put his life at risk when he turned himself in and then he chooses death again when he throws his lightsaber rather than killing the defeated Vader.
Maybe this is were my interpretation differs from many of you but I thought that in that moment Luke shows he is much wiser than his masters, he understands than trying to kill the sith was just becoming like them and that instead compassion and non violence was supposed to be the true light side choice. This is why I'm perfectly ok with Luke deciding the jedi dogma must end and his non violent sacrifice at the end of the movie. And that is also the reason I can not justify by any means his behavior towards Kylo.

 

Because even though this is a fictional universe, there are defined concepts in our world that make that make it different to people.

Lets pretend for a moment this sequence of events happened in the real world and there are consequences. Lets pretend Luke actually goes through with the deed and kills. Yes I know this sounds silly but there is a real difference in the audiences mind.

Scenario 1, ROTJ. Luke maybe gets arrested for manslaughter. There is a trial and maybe he gets off claiming self defense. This would be a crime of passion.

Scenario 2, TLJ. Luke gets arrested for murder. There is a trial and Luke for sure gets convicted of 2nd degree murder. There is a good chance he is convicted of first degree murder. He contemplated this, waited until Kylo was sleeping to confront him, walked into the hut with a weapon, and ignited the weapon. This was premeditated.

 

Let's not forget the important details here- no matter what happened, Luke did not attack Kylo. He considered it (a bit too openly, perhaps) but he ultimately did not act.

 

I understand the analogy you are trying to make but I don't quite agree with your scenario 1 resolution. I don't think you get arrested for killing your enemy in a war, he probably would have gotten a medal...

 

There are some genuine gripes with the film, but for the most part some fans really are reaching to find flaws, I mean REACHING. My favourite is the using Light speed as a weapon and obvious physics in space that were never ever a problem for Star Wars before. Stop trying to hate the movie because of one or two scenes and just enjoy it for what it is, that's what I'd say.

 

I am very thankfull to Disney and Lucasfilm. They are making SW movies that I am really enjoying. All of them so far.
I had my time of complains during the PT (AOTC and ROTS are movies that I dont even watch anymore). So...its my time now! For the ones that are disliking the ST I feel sorry for them and I wont try to convence anybody at liking this new era.

 

I agree, I was trying to even forget about the fact there is a war.

 

Maybe he didn't attack...but he certainly threatened him.
Sneaking into your nephew's room, reading his mind, pulling out your sword to kill him. It's just too weird and out of character.
How about you just give your sister and best friend a call and plan an intervention for young confused Ben. Or better yet, just talk to Ben about what you're sensing...

 

That's why he's so disappointed in himself - that something so horrible could have crossed his mind.

 

Yeah...but for me, what Luke did was TOO bad. Sneaking in, pulling out the sword, turning it on...even bad people don't do stuff like that, let alone Luke. As far as we know from the movie, Ben hadn't even done anything bad yet. Luke just sensed darkness. Maybe if Luke had found out ben was a serial killer or something extreme, killing him would make sense.
I don't know. It just didn't work for me.

 

Luke Skywalker is a compassionate character, the most compassionate person who even thinks of doing such a thing might as well have committed the act themselves, Because Luke cares so much, it completely destroyed him; especially considering what happened afterward. How would anyone as good hearted as Luke Skywalker just brush that off and not be completely destroyed?

 

Since when has sensing the darkness in someone been lore? Your whole arguement is null and void. Thst would have been a pretty impressive power to use against Palpatine and Anakin don't you think?

The movie was poorly thought out and poorly written. I appreciate you trying to defend it but many of us do not see this as a SW film.

Watch this video, notice Kathleen Kennedy licking her lips (disgustingly just like Jabba) in anticipation of getting her hands on SW:

(I dont promote the whole "Devil" Kathleen Kennedy thing, but the video makes good points)

They completely abandoned the Han Solo / Leia love plot from 5-6. Instead they just had sex and make a kid... then Han goes back to "smuggling"....

The whole thing was a disaster from the get go and it is only going to get worse.

Thank you for your optimism though, very Jedi of you. Except the Jedi had to end.... because balance is grey. It's not light existing and then darkness throwing the light out of balance. Ignore the prophecies. Balance is both.