Biggest problem: Kylo does not regret his evil acts at all!

Does Kylo hate himself? Probably not. Vader did. I think KR dies evil in 9.

 

The only way I could see Ben Solo surviving and moving over to the hero side of the franchise would be if it were established that he hadn't been morally responsible for KR's acts. It would have to turn out that he had been someone's, presumably Snoke's, puppet. The ending of TLJ doesn't make that look very likely.
I think it would seem a bit of a cop out now.

 

He doesn't regret his evil acts?

There are so many moments where he's regretting his deeds and himself:


This man was born to regret his decisions.


And btw: One good deed can change the world. Then the moment comes Kylo Ren can redeem himself with only one good deed. It doesn't matter how much bad stuff he did before.

 

love this post.. love it.

it's a compliment to his character that so many see him so very differently.
What a character Kylo Ren is !

 

Every one who thinks Kylo Ren is a bad character, doesn't know anything about fictional writing.

 

thank you for responding to this, though honestly, with such a premise, what's there even to say?
it's a fundamental misinterpretation of his character (and of the message of Star Wars) to say he doesn't feel regret or is beyond saving.
also, people just keep insisting he's Darker than ever! fully grasped the Dark side! he didn't do it when he killed Han and he didn't do it killing Snoke either.
his goal has never been to be Dark side evil. he's trying to fix what he thinks is broken in the galaxy.
still going about it completely wrong, but his intention is actually noble in his own head.



and in TLJ he's still holding on (clearly); he still doesn't understand that his pain and his rage is causing him to make stupid choices, clouding his intentions.
he lectures Rey on it because he gets it intellectually, but he doesn't get it emotionally as it applies to himself.

his final moments on Crait may be a door closing on his face, but there's another one opening in his mind:
he's confronted with the loss of something that was so very nearly in his grasp; something he wants desperately (probably even more than galactic rule).

he only has to put the pieces together now.

 

great post.

A door most certainly did close on him at the end of TLJ... but it wasn't the door he needed. Ben will figure it out

 

I partly agree with you, but the interesting thing about this is that he didn't know that Leia survived space.

 

Interesting observation.

Vader became the monster he needed to be relatively easily, and he played the role relatively soullessly up until Endor.

Kylo, on the other hand, is trying to be Vader. He wants to be evil, he wants to give in and become the monster, and he even refers to himself as such. But as ironic as his "let the past die" quote is, he's still hanging on to some part of himself that isn't the monster. I'm not sure if we can say it's "good" in him that's preventing him- just "himself". In Star Wars, they say Anakin was killed by Vader- I don't the same can be said of Kylo and Ben, not yet at least.


Anyway, obviously in real life there are people who have committed atrocious enough crimes that they are beyond redemption. Hitler, Charles Manson, etc.

I think there's a disconnect in fantasy and sci-fi, though. Sure, Kylo Ren is a traitor and a murderer, but I really don't think he's beyond redemption in Star Wars. In real life? Yeah, definitely. He basically did the real life equivalent of going on a killing spree and then joining an enemy terrorist organization. But in Star Wars, I think there really is a different standard. Not to say he will be redeemed, because obviously I don't know. Just, I wouldn't write the idea off quite yet.


I mean, total hypothetical here, and not one I expect to happen: let's say the Chiss decide to invade the rest of the Galaxy in IX. The Resistance try to fight them off as best as they can with help from some other systems, but they can't hold the line. Kylo shows up with the First Order, helps drive the Chiss away. Then, Kylo and Poe/Rey work out a solution for a treaty and territory division in the galaxy. Would something like that not be at least a form of redemption?

 

Oh! I really like what you have posted here!

I too, think HE see's that there needs to be change, but maybe HE just isn't aware yet that HE has to have balance with the change. It can't be absolute one sided power...

-Remembering the dialogue from Episode III...

Supreme Chancellor: Remember back to your early teachings. "All who gain power are afraid to lose it." Even the Jedi.
Anakin Skywalker: The Jedi use their power for good.
Supreme Chancellor: Good is a point of view, Anakin. The Sith and the Jedi are similar in almost every way, including their quest for greater power.
Anakin Skywalker: The Sith rely on their passion for their strength. They think inward, only about themselves.
Supreme Chancellor: And the Jedi don't?
Anakin Skywalker: The Jedi are selfless... they only care about others.

Personally, I hope KR redeems himself.....3rd times a charm, right? It's just a thought

- "No ones ever really gone" -Luke to Leia

 

love this thinking outside the box. there are still so many ways this story can go.
i'm saddened by the lack of imagination in some of this fandom. : o p

totally! he gets that the prior dynamic was a big fail. he lists the Sith among the things that need to die.
he just doesn't see the balance yet (because he himself is so unbalanced still).

but he's getting there. this was a big lesson for him as much as Rey. : D

 

I agree 110% @FN-3263827 !! Ohhh to be a Force Ghost reading the script over JJ's shoulders as he writes it!

 

Meh, I think some of these are at least up for debate. I'm not so sure these examples can be so casually discarded.

 

and what evil has he done since killing Snoke exactly? pursued some Rebels? killed a few by his orders in the skimmers? yelled a lot?
for a Dark side galactic evil overlord, he's got a pretty yawn-worthy resume.
honestly, the worst thing i've seen him do is treat Hux like a dog (and few would agree with me on that).

wake me up when he does something actually worthy of being called truly evil.

 

So Jacen.... He killed his aunt. Kylo killed his father.
Jacen trained his cousin and his other cousin's girlfriend. number of apprentices 2. Kylo trained a bunch of Knights of Ren number of apprentices at least 5 according to TFA.
Jacen constructed his own ISD. Kylo owned his entire fleet.

It sounds like Kylo is more evil than Jacen.
So Jacen wasn't truly evil. :-|

 

I could see Ben rejecting the Dark Side in IX, however, because of his past, I think his redemption path and being accepted as redeemed will need more time (perhaps another trilogy of Episodes...?).

I could see Rey being the only person in Episode IX who really accepts him as good and understands he truly has journeyed back to the Light. I could see Ben running off into the night with everyone (but Rey) thinking he's a bad guy, a la Batman in the Dark Knight.

Adam Driver is doing such a good job with this character, I'd hate to see him killed off. Love to see him as good-guy Ben Solo in another trilogy (or even stand alone movie).

It would be cool to see him play Ben Solo post-Episode IX as an anonymous hero-Jedi, redeemed Sith (er, I mean redeemed Knight of Ren), who is saving the day but hiding from his past at the same time.