1. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

Biggest problem: Kylo does not regret his evil acts at all!

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by McDiarmid, Feb 20, 2018.

?

Kylo does not regret for his evil acts.

Poll closed Apr 7, 2020.
  1. He is cool

    8 vote(s)
    17.4%
  2. He is cold blooded patricidal murderer

    30 vote(s)
    65.2%
  3. ReyLo will erase his records

    8 vote(s)
    17.4%
  1. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Posts:
    3,481
    Likes Received:
    3,897
    Trophy Points:
    12,517
    Credits:
    6,785
    Ratings:
    +7,940 / 410 / -137
    Ben has killed his own father,and after killing Snoke taken himself responcibility for mass murders in the galaxy, including kill, attempt or promise to kill of almost every major positive character .

    Incomplete list of characters Ben tried or succeeded to kill so far:

    - Luke's padawans at training camp,
    - Lorr San Tekka.
    - Han Solo(his father)
    - Finn
    - Luke Skywalker,
    - promissed to Luke he will destroy Rey to..
    - Leia(his own mother)...he actually, after reluctance to do it himself, finally given order to his soldiers to kill even his own mother Leia because he ordered final assault and no prisoners at Crait..and Leia was there to.

    I have no illusion many even now believe its possible to make such acts of Kylo(Ben) be redeemed in flesh and stay alive after what he has done.

    But in my eyes, only in death, in the spirit,in the Force, could Ben be redeemed, just like his gradfather Anakin.

    Any other solution for Kylo/Ben redemption will not withstand criticism and will make even larger damage to fandom and this franchise.

    Kylo Ren /Ben is colblooded murderer, and this is accentuated by the fact he is not regretting for his acts at all , something even Vader who was a Sith, was not able to avoid.

    [​IMG]
     
    #1 McDiarmid, Feb 20, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
    • Like Like x 4
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  2. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2016
    Posts:
    2,001
    Likes Received:
    2,585
    Trophy Points:
    8,842
    Credits:
    3,840
    Ratings:
    +4,404 / 293 / -149
    Does Kylo hate himself? Probably not. Vader did. I think KR dies evil in 9.
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Wise Wise x 2
    • Hopeful Hopeful x 2
  3. Enkidu

    Enkidu Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Posts:
    96
    Likes Received:
    101
    Trophy Points:
    842
    Credits:
    693
    Ratings:
    +197 / 2 / -0
    The only way I could see Ben Solo surviving and moving over to the hero side of the franchise would be if it were established that he hadn't been morally responsible for KR's acts. It would have to turn out that he had been someone's, presumably Snoke's, puppet. The ending of TLJ doesn't make that look very likely.
    I think it would seem a bit of a cop out now.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 3
  4. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Posts:
    3,481
    Likes Received:
    3,897
    Trophy Points:
    12,517
    Credits:
    6,785
    Ratings:
    +7,940 / 410 / -137
    Yes.

    My hope of Ben not been fully morally responcible worked until we sough he ploted his acendancy and killed Snoke, and than refused call from Rey to change the side.

    One of the most painful paralels I can make after VIII is this:
    In ep. VII, at the bridge, Han Solo is telling to his son: "Snoke will use you, than crush you..you know its true.."
    Only for we to find in ep VIII Kylo ploted to betray and kill Snoke,to became new Supreme leader and refused to change side...so he is not justiffied.Never can be, he missed his chance to redeem himelf by obliterating Snoke at accept different path, jet , he stayed on Snoke's path, path of darknes.

    Kylo is calculated, darkiside killer, he does not regret anything, only want power,which justiffies all his acts.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  5. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Posts:
    4,423
    Likes Received:
    98,685
    Trophy Points:
    170,017
    Credits:
    53,087
    Ratings:
    +106,484 / 161 / -32
    He doesn't regret his evil acts?

    There are so many moments where he's regretting his deeds and himself:
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    This man was born to regret his decisions.
    [​IMG]

    And btw: One good deed can change the world. Then the moment comes Kylo Ren can redeem himself with only one good deed. It doesn't matter how much bad stuff he did before.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 7
    • Like Like x 4
    • Hopeful Hopeful x 1
  6. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Posts:
    3,199
    Likes Received:
    66,938
    Trophy Points:
    171,705
    Credits:
    21,876
    Ratings:
    +72,666 / 26 / -13
    love this post.. love it.

    it's a compliment to his character that so many see him so very differently.
    What a character Kylo Ren is !
     
    • Like Like x 11
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  7. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Posts:
    4,423
    Likes Received:
    98,685
    Trophy Points:
    170,017
    Credits:
    53,087
    Ratings:
    +106,484 / 161 / -32
    Every one who thinks Kylo Ren is a bad character, doesn't know anything about fictional writing. :p
     
    • Like Like x 9
    • Great Post Great Post x 3
    • Wise Wise x 2
    • Funny Funny x 2
  8. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Posts:
    10,000
    Likes Received:
    140,525
    Trophy Points:
    171,577
    Credits:
    68,058
    Ratings:
    +156,792 / 65 / -7
    thank you for responding to this, though honestly, with such a premise, what's there even to say?
    it's a fundamental misinterpretation of his character (and of the message of Star Wars) to say he doesn't feel regret or is beyond saving.
    also, people just keep insisting he's Darker than ever! fully grasped the Dark side! he didn't do it when he killed Han and he didn't do it killing Snoke either.
    his goal has never been to be Dark side evil. he's trying to fix what he thinks is broken in the galaxy.
    still going about it completely wrong, but his intention is actually noble in his own head.

    [​IMG]

    and in TLJ he's still holding on (clearly); he still doesn't understand that his pain and his rage is causing him to make stupid choices, clouding his intentions.
    he lectures Rey on it because he gets it intellectually, but he doesn't get it emotionally as it applies to himself.

    his final moments on Crait may be a door closing on his face, but there's another one opening in his mind:
    he's confronted with the loss of something that was so very nearly in his grasp; something he wants desperately (probably even more than galactic rule).

    he only has to put the pieces together now.
     
    • Like Like x 7
    • Great Post Great Post x 4
    • Wise Wise x 1
    • Hopeful Hopeful x 1
  9. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Posts:
    3,199
    Likes Received:
    66,938
    Trophy Points:
    171,705
    Credits:
    21,876
    Ratings:
    +72,666 / 26 / -13
    great post.

    A door most certainly did close on him at the end of TLJ... but it wasn't the door he needed. Ben will figure it out ;)
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Hopeful Hopeful x 1
  10. Exo

    Exo Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2018
    Posts:
    83
    Likes Received:
    376
    Trophy Points:
    1,517
    Credits:
    1,029
    Ratings:
    +447 / 1 / -1
    I partly agree with you, but the interesting thing about this is that he didn't know that Leia survived space.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Wise Wise x 2
  11. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Posts:
    4,067
    Likes Received:
    17,280
    Trophy Points:
    145,167
    Credits:
    16,837
    Ratings:
    +21,380 / 62 / -37
    Interesting observation.

    Vader became the monster he needed to be relatively easily, and he played the role relatively soullessly up until Endor.

    Kylo, on the other hand, is trying to be Vader. He wants to be evil, he wants to give in and become the monster, and he even refers to himself as such. But as ironic as his "let the past die" quote is, he's still hanging on to some part of himself that isn't the monster. I'm not sure if we can say it's "good" in him that's preventing him- just "himself". In Star Wars, they say Anakin was killed by Vader- I don't the same can be said of Kylo and Ben, not yet at least.


    Anyway, obviously in real life there are people who have committed atrocious enough crimes that they are beyond redemption. Hitler, Charles Manson, etc.

    I think there's a disconnect in fantasy and sci-fi, though. Sure, Kylo Ren is a traitor and a murderer, but I really don't think he's beyond redemption in Star Wars. In real life? Yeah, definitely. He basically did the real life equivalent of going on a killing spree and then joining an enemy terrorist organization. But in Star Wars, I think there really is a different standard. Not to say he will be redeemed, because obviously I don't know. Just, I wouldn't write the idea off quite yet.


    I mean, total hypothetical here, and not one I expect to happen: let's say the Chiss decide to invade the rest of the Galaxy in IX. The Resistance try to fight them off as best as they can with help from some other systems, but they can't hold the line. Kylo shows up with the First Order, helps drive the Chiss away. Then, Kylo and Poe/Rey work out a solution for a treaty and territory division in the galaxy. Would something like that not be at least a form of redemption?
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Original Original x 1
  12. Syeana Tovari

    Credits:
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0



    Oh! I really like what you have posted here! :)

    I too, think HE see's that there needs to be change, but maybe HE just isn't aware yet that HE has to have balance with the change. It can't be absolute one sided power...

    -Remembering the dialogue from Episode III...

    Supreme Chancellor: Remember back to your early teachings. "All who gain power are afraid to lose it." Even the Jedi.
    Anakin Skywalker: The Jedi use their power for good.
    Supreme Chancellor: Good is a point of view, Anakin. The Sith and the Jedi are similar in almost every way, including their quest for greater power.
    Anakin Skywalker: The Sith rely on their passion for their strength. They think inward, only about themselves.
    Supreme Chancellor: And the Jedi don't?
    Anakin Skywalker: The Jedi are selfless... they only care about others.

    Personally, I hope KR redeems himself.....3rd times a charm, right? It's just a thought :)

    - "No ones ever really gone" -Luke to Leia
     
    • Like Like x 7
    • Hopeful Hopeful x 1
  13. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Posts:
    10,000
    Likes Received:
    140,525
    Trophy Points:
    171,577
    Credits:
    68,058
    Ratings:
    +156,792 / 65 / -7
    love this thinking outside the box. there are still so many ways this story can go.
    i'm saddened by the lack of imagination in some of this fandom. : o p

    totally! he gets that the prior dynamic was a big fail. he lists the Sith among the things that need to die.
    he just doesn't see the balance yet (because he himself is so unbalanced still).

    but he's getting there. this was a big lesson for him as much as Rey. : D
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Hopeful Hopeful x 1
  14. Syeana Tovari

    Credits:
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I agree 110% @FN-3263827 !! Ohhh to be a Force Ghost reading the script over JJ's shoulders as he writes it! :D
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Friendly Friendly x 3
  15. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Posts:
    3,481
    Likes Received:
    3,897
    Trophy Points:
    12,517
    Credits:
    6,785
    Ratings:
    +7,940 / 410 / -137

    Unfortunately examples you made are not regret.

    He killed his father, this is not regret, he regrets for been shaken by this act, for been to weak which Snoke felt.
    He regrets for not been able to murder Han perfectly..
    Kill the past.

    He orders onslought on last stand on Crait, with the order"no prisoners taken" means killing his mother Leia to.

    Him not pulling the triger on Raddus to Kill his mother , unfortunately, in the light of his later order on Crate, can be seen more as a lack of curriage to kill is mother with his own hands, not regret.

    Again, he destroys his helmet in his rage of not (jet) been perfect in his evil acts.

    Not a zero regret in him.


    And Rey should have romance with him.... this is humiliation of a women.
     
    #15 McDiarmid, Feb 20, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
    • Clouded Clouded x 1
  16. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Posts:
    4,067
    Likes Received:
    17,280
    Trophy Points:
    145,167
    Credits:
    16,837
    Ratings:
    +21,380 / 62 / -37
    Meh, I think some of these are at least up for debate. I'm not so sure these examples can be so casually discarded.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  17. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Posts:
    3,481
    Likes Received:
    3,897
    Trophy Points:
    12,517
    Credits:
    6,785
    Ratings:
    +7,940 / 410 / -137
    Ben has killed to much people, and made his own choices by his free will .

    By killing Snoke and making Kylo Supreme leader ,with his conscious decision, story has gone in different (determened) way, he is now fully responcible for all his evil acts.

    Changing this determened fact in ep IX into relativised path that leads into" redemption" to look plausible even for average public will be true work of genius , otherwise would worth of throwing up and would lead further down the path of decline of credibility of Star Wars..
     
    #17 McDiarmid, Feb 20, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
    • Like Like x 2
  18. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Posts:
    10,000
    Likes Received:
    140,525
    Trophy Points:
    171,577
    Credits:
    68,058
    Ratings:
    +156,792 / 65 / -7
    and what evil has he done since killing Snoke exactly? pursued some Rebels? killed a few by his orders in the skimmers? yelled a lot?
    for a Dark side galactic evil overlord, he's got a pretty yawn-worthy resume.
    honestly, the worst thing i've seen him do is treat Hux like a dog (and few would agree with me on that).

    wake me up when he does something actually worthy of being called truly evil.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  19. Darth_Mu

    Darth_Mu Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Posts:
    279
    Likes Received:
    313
    Trophy Points:
    867
    Credits:
    306
    Ratings:
    +506 / 15 / -28
    So Jacen.... He killed his aunt. Kylo killed his father.
    Jacen trained his cousin and his other cousin's girlfriend. number of apprentices 2. Kylo trained a bunch of Knights of Ren number of apprentices at least 5 according to TFA.
    Jacen constructed his own ISD. Kylo owned his entire fleet.

    It sounds like Kylo is more evil than Jacen.
    So Jacen wasn't truly evil. :-|
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. JediJurist

    JediJurist Rebel General

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2014
    Posts:
    156
    Likes Received:
    314
    Trophy Points:
    4,032
    Credits:
    1,138
    Ratings:
    +587 / 13 / -1
    I could see Ben rejecting the Dark Side in IX, however, because of his past, I think his redemption path and being accepted as redeemed will need more time (perhaps another trilogy of Episodes...?).

    I could see Rey being the only person in Episode IX who really accepts him as good and understands he truly has journeyed back to the Light. I could see Ben running off into the night with everyone (but Rey) thinking he's a bad guy, a la Batman in the Dark Knight.

    Adam Driver is doing such a good job with this character, I'd hate to see him killed off. Love to see him as good-guy Ben Solo in another trilogy (or even stand alone movie).

    It would be cool to see him play Ben Solo post-Episode IX as an anonymous hero-Jedi, redeemed Sith (er, I mean redeemed Knight of Ren), who is saving the day but hiding from his past at the same time.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Informative Informative x 1
Loading...

Share This Page