Casting, Racism, Sexism and Kathleen Kennedy

How are you guys dismissing a character either as an OP Mary Sue or as utterly incompetent with just one-third of their storyline known to you? We know next to nothing about Rey. We don't we where Finn is going to go and how he's going to evolve. What if there's a good reason she's so quick to learn? What if Finn gets his own plotline so that he can get out of the shadow of Rey? So he can learn to be a hero too?

Reserve judgment until you have all the facts, guys

 

Couldnt have said it better than me. Well said, Lily.

 

Dont think 1/3 of trilogy means Finn needs zero payoff in the first movie.

Nor does it fix some other stuff....

But sure it might justify Rey is sudden acquisition of advanced Force Skills.

 

Yeah, I wasn't really judging her whole character arc, just of what I've seen in TFA. and I fully expect her to be tested, and overcome trails in the next episodes. as for Finn, I don't class him as incompetent at all. Just out of his depth. I think personally that Rey's trials and journey will be quite a rocky one, which is why she's set up to be so competent in the initial episode.

 

Yeah, its just a difference of the core definition of the term Mary Sue. For me, the main thing is not weather a character is believable or not (Which I totally think Rey is) but weather they are essentially 'perfect' which I would say she is, and thats why I think she is a Mary Sue. But as said above, this is only the first leg of her journey, and should she fall to the darkside, or surprise me in any way with her motivation, so that she is no longer 'perfect' I would agree that she isn't a mary sue.

I think the fact she's portrayed as so competent and brilliant will likely serve as a strong plot point for when she is tested/almost broken. Such as when she meets someone she idolised like Luke Skywalker. Or has to decide weather or not to kill Kylo Ren.

and again, I don't consider it to be such a bad thing that she's a Mary Sue. lots of stories have them. most superheroes are them.
its just for some reason female heroes get called out on it, which is unfair.

 

0 payoff other than saving Poe, saving the resistance, saving Rey. Yes once you ignore the positive elements of the character he really sucks.

 

Finn possibly had the greatest payoff in the movie. At first, he was shown as being very self-preserving, willing to abandon Rey and BB8 to save himself. However, in the last scene, he puts himself between Rey and Kylo, facing certain defeat, putting his own safety in jeopardy just to save his friend. His strength is loyalty and his bravery. He's the only hero that is active. He CHOOSES to go back for Rey. He CHOOSES to fight. Unlike Rey who's sort of dragged into the fight by Kylo Ren kidnapping her.

It's interesting how dismissive people are of male characters who don't conform to the masculine ideal. People brush off his positive attributes just because he was "shown up" by a woman. A woman who is canonically more powerful than he is.

Finn is never going to be a macho, alpha, "badass" hero (at least not the way you'd define badass) and he doesn't have to be. He's an amazing character capable of nuance that none of the other heroes are.

The sooner you accept it, the happier you will be.

 

Loyalty Bravery so what you say that is if its exclusive to Finn. What are Rey and Poe not Loyal and Brave? Are those not standard hero traits.
I don't see how having those traits means its fine he doesn't have the skills to pay the bills.

I would call him a sidekick but that be an insult because you can at least trust a sidekick to beat the equivalent of a stormtrooper.

He was there to make Rey look good and help her fulfill her oh so special destiny. Sorry that doesn't interest me usually and it certainly doesn't interest me when that is all the first Black Lead does. Make other characters look good and do comic relief...sorry that is pretty standard Hollywood fare and nothing about that is enjoyable to me.

Course normally I just get an inferior sidekick. I don't normally have to sit through some questionable stuff such as the character drinking from a through with the animals or having to get named or having a background in sanitation.

 

I have to disagree. So now we have to think that just cause she's strong in the Force that covers the fact that she is a total Mary Sue? Anakin WAS CREATED by the Force. Can you get any more special than that? And yet Anakin was not made to be an all powerful perfect character cause he was just filled with flaws and failed at alot of things. I can work in a junk shop by myself but does that mean that I can put together a car better than those that build them for a living? I can practice on a flight simulation for years, does that mean I can pilot one of the fastest jets in the world because of that? Was Rey's simulator so awesome that it could compensate for flying an antique ship that was incredibly modified by it's owner? Did she happen to find some books that showed her how to speak to Wookies and Droids too?

We all have the right to our own opinions and that is something that should be respected but I find it unfair that all of a sudden, Anakin who was a being created by the Force can be considered overpowered by many people here even though we were shows his many flaws but these same people can't accept that Rey was incredibly overpowered and perfect at everything.

 

Why are you even on this site, then? Jesus. If you hate the characters so much, if you hate the movie so much, that all your posts are denigrating it, why do it on a fansite?

Like you don't have ONE positive thing to say.

Boggles my mind

 

I'm totally with you on this. This is why he's my second favourite new character. He's such an interesting twist on what it means to be a Hero. Finn turns from being a stormtrooper henchman, into a brave hero who defends his friends and goes back to save them. no-one else was going to go and save Rey, or fight by her side against Kylo Ren.

I think someone standing up to powers vastly stronger than them is more heroic than someone who possesses great power.
This is why Finn is so important, and its also why i speculate he will be necessary to Rey as a kind of moral compass.

He could lose every fight as far as i'm concerned, have bits of him hacked off in every conflict but as long as he gets up again, and continues to do the right thing that is way more impressive than any amount of storm trooper killing.

 

Anakin won a Pod-Race at the age of 11. Rey piloted the Millenium Falcon, which knows a lot about (She knew the modifications Unkar Plutt made), at the age of 19. She only JUST escaped the TIE fighters and it was Finn who actually did the shooting.

What's your point again.

 

Well was that Anakin's first pod race ever?

But the point stands Anakin was created by the Force and yet wasnt Jedi Mind Tricking the same day he found out he had the Force.
Nor was he owning his first Dark Sider. Yeah Kylo was injured but he has at least a decade on Rey while Anakin had Kenobi and what 5,6.7 years of training?

 

Yeah Anakin won the pod race at the age of 11 but let me see........hum didn't the movie say he had always lost it before and he hadn't even finished said race not even once? Rey flew the Falcon better than anybody and the ONLY way that Finn got that last shot was due to her spectacular flying skills.

What's your point again?

 

@Rieekan

Can I give you a hug?

--- Double Post Merged, May 14, 2017, Original Post Date: May 14, 2017 ---

Something tells me that you haven't watched the OT at all.

Didn't you hear? Han makes the Kessel run in the Millenium Falcon in 14 (12) parsecs!

Rey on the other hands bangs it about.

 

That's amazing, I had no idea Finn had more speaking lines than Rey. That makes sense though as he is the driving force of the narrative often, and the main voice of the audience. Interesting stuff indeed.

 

He was hit by a bowcaster. He wasn't "injured". He was mortally wounded. Normal people would have long been dead. He was weakened after killing his father (yes he was, read the book). He was also not trying to kill Rey. Rey had no such compunctions. She was aiming for his head, he was aiming for her lightsaber.

He didn't have the privilege of Kylo rooting around his brain and unlocking his force capabilities.

Wow. Guy, you really really feel threatened by women, huh?