Disney / Canonical Accurate Portrayal?

You have no concept of what "canon" actually means.

You do realize she didn't "force fly" or "force levitate", right? You do realize how little force it takes to set an object (no matter how heavy) drifting in a direction in outer space.......in a weight-less environment.....right?

*sigh*

 

Every example of a Jedi mind trick has always been delivered with conviction and assuredness... until Rey does it. It seems confidence is a part of what makes it work... of course until now.

 

I often agree with most of your criticism towards the movie but I can't understand what you are trying to say here, I know many people didn't like the scene for many reasons but there is no inconsistency in the way the force is being used here.
Leia is in no way flying or levitating she in the middle of space with no gravity.
What could you possibly mean by force pull in reverse? If you pull or push an object that is more difficult to move than you, then you are the one who moves and not the object, this is basic physics, when you do a pull up from a fixed bar you pull yourself towards the bar, when you do a push up you push your self up(only chuck norris pushes the earth down).

 

But what I don't understand is what ability you are talking about it's a simple force pull. It's just like pulling a lightsaber.

 

I used to write Star Wars fanfiction. I made up my own characters and even a planet or two. But in writing my stories, the one thing that took up more time than anything else was the research. I would look up everything down to the brand of concussion missiles my character had on his ship. Did it really matter? Nope, but it was consistent with the EU. I made sure everything I wrote fit into the setting, using only established themes laid down by the movies, books and games.

Creative freedom is all well and good, but I always found that taking on the challenge of telling a unique story that adhered 100% to the established continuity to be far more interesting and rewarding. I feel it lent my stories a certain legitimacy that wouldn't have been there if I hadn't done the research and just went with whatever idea I could think up.

It is a bit concerning to me that in writing these films, they don't seem to be doing the same degree of research I would do. When it comes to well established sci fi franchises with massive fan followings, consistency and legitimacy go hand in hand. When something is depicted as being inconsistent, people will decry it as illegitimate. That's just the way some fandoms roll. Consistency is key, as they say.

I do hope that some of the things the OP mentioned get proper explanations at some point. But I've adopted a "wait and watch" approach with the future of the franchise. There are plenty of stories yet to be told, meaning we still have an incomplete picture of what Canon really is. For me, it's still too early to judge.

 

I remember doing the same thing, sort of. I didn't so much write stories, but managed SW based table top gaming with some friends. Adding fine details and referencing the universe adds a lot to a story, allows people to suppress their disbelief. It adds history, context, detail, and simply that feeling of a lived in universe, much like our real world that has had wars and natural disasters ect... you can build a decent story without it, but it loses something. JL did a fantastic job in the OT when adding Ord Mandel or Battle of Teneb (off the top of my head). So on one hand it can be done artificially like JL did, but once there's canon to fall back on, even better to reference what many fans have already experienced.

It just seems the writers didn't take the time to think things through. Hopefully I'm wrong and all my complaining will be for nothing as Ep9 fixes all of my misgivings. Two more years.

 

Two self-contradictions followed by an assumption. Yup. That's canon right there. For sure.

Really? You DO understand that she didn't force fly, and you're not concerned with the mechanics of it all? Because you JUST said:

"If Leia can force pull herself back onto a ship, then ANY other jedi should be able to force pull themselves and defy laws of gravity on planets to get to more advantageous positioning......"

 

It doesn't work like that.

Life does not have happily ever afters. There is always a "next thing." After ROTJ, you had whatever ending you wanted for twenty-three years. Sure, it would be great if Luke became an amazing Jedi and if Han and Leia "lived happily ever after" but it wouldn't be good story. So, that leaves Disney with two choices: 1.) Set it far enough down the line so that you never see Luke, Han and Leia, or 2.) Complicate their stories.

If you do #1, you risk alienating fans by not including them. If you do #2, it can be, as we're seeing today, some fans not happy with the direction their characters are going in. For me, complicating their stories is far more interesting than keeping the status quo or just ignoring. It adds depth and dimension to their characters, makes them more real, more human.

Everyone is so stuck on the fact that Han and Luke (and by necessity, Leia) are gone from the story. I'm sad, too, but they had some amazing stories in the times we knew them. And in the Star Wars universe, they're legends. This part of the saga, I think will be known more as the Legacy of the Skywalkers. Luke may have, to Rey, been a bit of a disappointment, but to the galaxy, he's a hero -- he's the match that lights the fire. His actions on Ahch-To/Crait will help spark a new generation of rebellion to fight the First Order.

I think a message, that is missed in this movie, is that while you may sometimes fall short in people's opinions of you, you always have another chance to do right.

The point is: the big OT 3 may not have lived happily ever after, but their legend looms large on coming events.

To me, that's pretty damned exciting.

 

It's only a contradiction if the two things can't possibly be true at the same time. Rey not using a hand motion while others did, for example, is not a contradiction with canon. It's just a difference within canon. As long as the difference is explained well enough on its own terms, I'm fine with that. Whether it is explained is the real question.

 

Agreed. Including the OT heroes in this new trilogy was necessary after the PT. Some people seemed to have forgotten what a divide those three films created in SW fandom. Bringing back not only the OT characters but also the designs (Tie Fighters, the Falcon, ...), puppetry ('we're doing this the old way!) and on was the strategy to make SW relevant again. The people in charge of the ST were all kids who grew up on the OT and i suspect a great many if them to have been seriously disappointed by the PT. I know I was.

But how to further the story in a meaningful way AND include Luke, Leia, Han without simply copying what came before? It reminds me of the countless playground debates my friends and me had after viewing ep6 at the local cinema. Most of what we came up with boiled down to the mundane 'Luke must become the new Vader and his kids will save him', or 'Palpatine has cloned himself and he will return stronger than ever...', or the truly outlandish 'the new republic must get invaded by a cruel alien race' ... Silly ideas really, fan fiction at it's worst, some of those ideas so predictable they did indeed turn up in the expanded universe which to me has always been more miss than hit...

What I'm trying to say is this; no matter what direction you take the new stories in you will always alienate a group of fans wether they think 'it's just a carbon copy' or 'they strayed too much from what SW means in my head.'

One thing you must give RJ and the team over at Lucas Arts is this; they set out to surprise and delight fans with new stories that feel as fresh as they can given that we are now eight films into (nine if you count Rogue One) the franchise. I like this fresh look at the force and the emphasis on the insight that a dogmatic point of view on life (here the force, good and evil) is wrong. Luke's lessons on hubris and the change all main characters go through in this film (without killing the past, but rather by learning from their mistakes and accepting their fallibility) is so strong that I do not hesitate in calling this the smartest and most humane this series has ever been. And that is quite something given we are at episode 8!

Was the movie perfect? Of course not (I just can't get into the Canot Bight storyline) but when it worked (everything Luke, Rey and Kylo, the space battles, 90% of the film so to speak) it really worked for me.

 

When Obi-Wan mind-tricks the stormtrooper in ANH he raises his middle finger, ring finger and pinky to make the motion, he leaves his index finger and thumb stationary. When Qui-Gon does it he waves his entire hand, all five of his fingers, so if you ask me the canon was ruined right then and there!!

You can't try and contain or explain the force. Saying that Rey's force progression completely goes against the canon is nonsense since we've only really followed one character through their force progression, and that would be Luke. We didn't see Anakin's training, it all happened off-screen. We've seen younglings wave some little lightsabers around but that's it. Luke is the only one we've ever seen do proper Jedi training and he's not a rule for the tens of thousands of Jedi that came before him or any that come after him.

I don't care if ROTJ set up a happily ever after, (even though it really didn't) TFA takes place an entire three decades after ROTJ. THAT'S 30 YEARS!! It's not like the sequel trilogy takes place immediately after ROTJ and all these things are just different, 30 years is a long time... and a lot of things can happen. Also, it wasn't disregarded as just a fling: We learn in Bloodline that Han and Leia are still together somewhat happily and it isn't until sometime after Ben's turn where things start to fall apart. But they were together for well over 20 years.

The only thing I sort've agree with you on is the First Order, but that's not a neglect of canon, it's just a weird story dynamic. The First Order was originally a "resistance" to The New Republic but THE resistance was created by Leia after learning of the First Order's existence as a way to resist this new rising army.

 

You mean like when Vader threw boxes at Luke in ESB without raising a hand? Or when Luke raised Threepio in the chair without raising a hand in ROTJ?

You continue to have no clue what you're talking about, while yelling at other members about how they're not true fans. Way to go. Thank you for your contribution.

 

I find it very unfair for anyone to judge someone else's fandom. Personally, I respect and appreciate that there are those who don't enjoy TLJ like I do. I don't suggest they're less of a fan even if I disagree with them.

Why don't we discuss the topic, not each other's fandom?

 

Could you, please, stop insulting people with differing opinions and stop dividing the fandom into "dirty casuals" and "true fans?" This is insulting and makes you lose all the credibility you had as a poster.

 

We've seen exactly one in film until Rey comes along, that's Luke. If you want to expand to Rebels and The Clone Wars, we add a few more but that's still a few out of thousands and thousands across a thousand generations. They aren't a rule for how the force works, there are no rules. The Force as something that exists in the SW universe is canon but how it works isn't, it's literally something that can't be canonized. It's far too intricate to be explained in a finite way.

I hope you realize I wasn't being serious. If you get upset about the lack of hand gesture in a mind trick... I really don't know what to tell you. To each their own though, I guess.

And now you're projecting these extremes, which are blatantly false. What about the times George either retconned or just completely disregarded previously established canon? Is he just excused because he's the creator? Someone brought this up to you earlier in the thread and you dismissed it by saying, "This thread isn't about George" which means that you really don't care about a legitimate discussion and that this is really nothing more than another dime a dozen, "I'm mad Disney owns Star Wars now" thread, and you're gonna nitpick whatever you can, no matter how silly, just to make your point.