SPECULATION Does this Snoke theory suck?

I figure what he’d want most is a darksider who could realistically take his place when he’s gone. He/she wouldn’t need to be crazy powerful. ‘Emperor’ is a political position after all. The only reason he faces Jedi Luke at all is for the chance to trade Vader in for a newer model. If he could simply grow an heir in a test tube, the best replacement for himself would probably be himself. Vader never really struck me as Emperor material personally.

 

sorry, my last comment didn't really have much to do with the OP!

personally, i don't like the idea of cloning a character and having them be new. like the whole Luuke thing from Legends? kinda lame, in my opinion. i'd be much more satisfied with a new character with new motivations.

 

Snoke could have been part of the Sith machinations, for all we know. i don't think anyone has enough information to truthfully say he was doing nothing the whole time.

so i take it the book refers to the site as being significant to the Sith directly? interesting... if you reckon that the Sith were interested in it the whole time, wouldn't the planet have been turned to a desert sooner? when did the climate change, anyway?

 

Well, I agree with a lot of what you've said, here and elsewhere.
The main difference is I just don't like the idea of clones and I hope they won't follow this path.
Moreover becouse to me it seams clones are not necessary since they're yet using other things/plots such as the Force Trees, about whom we still don't know so much.

I'll try to explain myself better....

You often remind us (and you're right on doing so) what Kenobi said about the Force: "It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together."

I'm starting to think, that if the Force is an Energy, maybe they are taking some ispiration from the phisics theory, that in nature energy is not created, it can't be destroid, it only changes.

That could explain several things we've seen in the past, like the force ghosts.
But also some of the clues and details of TFA and of the new canon novels and comincs.

1- MAZ KANATA QUOTE
" I have lived long enough to see the same eyes in different people" = is their "energy" if not their spirit that comes back?

2- SNOKE WORDS in TFA NOVELIZATION
"I watched the Galactic Empire rise, and then fall" = he was there (alive at that time) or was "someone or "something" (an energy) releted to him, there at that time?

If we accept - for a minute - that even Rey may be someone/something from the past (bet on Anakin) somehow came back, things are even more intresting.
It wuold explain a bunch of things I won't talk about here - beocuse I guess you're all fully aware of this - but also....

Please compere those two SNOKE'S QUOTES:

A (TFA) - "The droid will soon be delivered to the Resistance, leading them to the last Jedi. If Skywalker returns, the new Jedi will rise"

B (TFA'S N) - "Had Lord Vader not succumbed to emotion at the crucial moment—had the father killed the son—the Empire would have prevailed.
And there would be no threat of Skywalker’s return today.”"

Is it possible that THE LAST JEDI = LUKE but SKYWALKER = ANAKIN?
Is it possible that Snoke knew that Anakin (him or his "energy") is supposed to come back?
If so, it's becouse some kind of prophecy or experiment?

And then think about,

- REX words in LIFE DEBT: "The Empire must be fertile and young. Children are crucial to our success.... We need that kind of vitality.
That brand of energy you get with young. THE EMPIRE NEEDS CHILDREN"

You've already told us who's Rex and what was the job he had been appointed to undertake by Palpatine.

We also know, that

- Snoke was keeping an eye on Ben from a long time.... (LD)
- Kylo says to Rey "It is you" (TFA)

Question part II
If Snoke is aware that Anakin/Veder is returning (somehow), is it possible that he's searching for him?
That, that is the reason of RAX and FO obsession with children?
That Rax and Snoke (same person or not) kept an eye on children (and on some "special" children even more) becouse they're searching for him?
Is it possible, that Kylo/Ben is aware of this too?

In this sense, I think is more likely Snoke->Palpatine or Rax and Veder->Rey

Nevertheless, I feel the Force Trees will play a part.The problem is I don't know what this part may be and so how that could be releted to what I said above
or if that (the true role of the Force trees) would turn to prove that what I said above is simply wrong....

What we do know is just:

- the remains of the Force Tree of the Jedi Temple in Coruscant were kept by the Emperor in a secret base on Vetine.
- Two fragments were recovered by Luke and Shara Bey.
- Luke kept one of them and gifted the other to Bey and her husband.

Two fragments. I don't think the number two is irrilevant... there must be a reason if there were two.
But why?
Two as dark and light side?
Two as two people? Veder and Palpatine if the explanation lays into "the past" (PT or OT)
or Rey (I presume) and someone else, if it lays into the future we shall see (ST).

The thing is, there's too much we don't know:
- what did Luke with his tree?
I know people think he planted it in his new Jedi Temple. But it's a speculation, not something we know for sure, or do I miss something?

More over, we don't even know what the Emperor was really doing with those trees.
Was Palpatine doing an experiment or was he just expecting something through them?
In the second case, are they more similar to a Force compass or to a cradle?
I don't know how to explain it better, and I've already talk too much.

So excuse me.
Still I hope you get something....

 

Don't feel bad, I just learned who the guy was when I read the response the OP gave your comment as I too had no idea who this Rax dude was.

 

I prefer the idea that Force powers cannot be cloned, otherwise you have to explain why Palpatine didn't just create a massive army of Force users, all programed like the Jango clones to obey his every command. It also turns cloning into a writing crutch, and I don't want Star Wars to start leaning on cloning stories the way that, say, Star Trek leans on time travel.

The concept of cloning, in the face of scientific breakthroughs, is a ripe subject for modern science fiction - and there are plenty of them out there. Science fiction has always been a terrific medium to explore the moral implications of technological advances, but I don't personally see that jiving with Star Wars where the moral lessons are painted in much broader strokes. And if you use clones just to create twists to surprise the audience, for me, that's hollow storytelling.

 

so it may not be a Sith temple or location, just somewhere that's significant.

as for Snoke not being Sith, that's true, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have been part of the Empire's plan, right? i mean, people are positing that Rax could be Snoke, which means he would have helped with the Empire AND not been a Sith.

@lealt i like parts of your idea, definitely. i think the concept art of Anakin's ghost being part good and part Vader may have been changed to Rey and Ren being reflections of his legacy. maybe Rey is the, "new Jedi" that Snoke foresaw, hence reflecting Anakin's light side, while Ren is the Vader aspect of Anakin.

 

I just don't think force ghosts come back in physical form

 

I was thinking one way Snoke could be shown to be a worthy successor to Palpatine is to have him play more of a galactic puppet master a magnitude greater than the Emperor, spanning Star Wars saga antiquity to Star Wars saga present:

just as Palpatine set the galaxy at war with itself to advance his own Sith agenda, perhaps Snoke was intent on setting light and dark sides of the Force in constant clonflict -- but not necessarily with the intent of succeeding Palpatine and seizing physical power.

Perhaps Snoke is an enemy of the Force itself and seeks mutual elimination of light/dark sides.

Or maybe he wants the Force (like Gollum and the Ring)) all to himself, be it to somehow achieve immortality or to simply prevent others from tapping into it ("balancing" it or imbalancing it) in any significant manner.

I even imagine he could be something of an inversion of the Bendu character from Rebels -- not "the one in the middle" but as one on the outside who, after witnessing the nearly endless conflict between the Jedi and the Sith, decides to intervene if not commandeer the Will of the Force to suit his own intentions.

Perhaps he prefers or needs chaos or has an entirely alien Force philosophy or simply maintains nihilistic goals.

His ability to succeed does seem to hinge entirely on whether or not Luke returns along with the Jedi.

 

yes, in fact.
But thank you @AstromechRecords, becouse you allow me to be more clear on this point.

I'll add another clue:
Do you remeber the scene of Chirrut death R1?
What does he say to Baze?
"Look for the Force and you will always find me."
This could be another hint into the possibility they're working on the idea that the Force as an Energy, cannot disappear or be destroyed.
To me, those words suggest that at least Chirrut believes that after death he will be one thing with the Force.
As if his energy ("I'm one with Force") will it will convene or will dissolve itself into the Force (which is the biggest of the mother of all other energies)

Of course, Chirrut words are the words of someone who's not aware of capable to come back as a force ghost.

Kenobi, Joda, Anakin and Qui Gon Jin, they've managed to do so: to maintain their individuality.
In death, their "energy" rejoined the Force, but it was not dissolved into it.
In this sence, ghostes are not (if I'm right) something "phisical".

However, Anakin, may be another thing.
He succeeded as kenobi, joda etc... but - don't forget - he's the chosen one.

So he or to say it better the Force with him, may be able to do something more.

If he was a pure creation of the Force, a will of the Force itself, maybe the Force can act as it did again.

If so, on one hand we have to give up the theory that Cedius created him playing with midichlorians, but on the other hand
I guess the idea Anakin as the chosen one would be even more relevant.

 

I like this but if people can simply come back after death, then what's the point of anakin being the chosen one?

 

I've got your points and I'll try to move forward.

1- I don't think "people" can come back.
I don't expect Chirrut will, for example.
But since I quote Maz Kanata before, we probably need to add something else.
Maybe on a general level, people like Chirrut (or ordinary people like you and me) just dissolve into the Force, after death.

However, since this Force is an Energy (see Kenobi quote) and this energy transforms itself, every new born has something
of different passed away lives. Every new born may be a mix of past lives....
They've dissolved themselves into this big energy (the Force), that later on produces newborn people and the rest of the living beings... plants, animals, whatever.
Yeah... I've forgot about the plants. Could this add something to the force trees?

2- Maybe, people like Obi-Wan, Joda, etc... were somehow capable of mantain their own individuality-> Force Ghosts.

3- In Anakin case, there could be something more.
But you are asking a true question:
Is it needed Anakin's return (somehow) in someone holding/keeping his late individuality, or can the Force use another random chosen one to reach its purpose?

I honestly think that in theory, it could work in a way on in the other, but probably they've decided for the first one.

Marketing reasons play a part, but the story telling too.

If the tale we've been told, is "one" tale, the same one, then we have to go back.

Palpatine began to plot long before The Chosen One (then Anakin) appared and the Jedi were complitelly unawere of that (TFM).
They were still unaware of his evil strategies when the war of clones began. (TAOFC).
By the time of Anakin's fall, Palpatine's plan was almost complete.
To be clear: Palpatine has planned the war and the order 66 alone and long before what we see at the end of episode 3.

Anakin's fall was just the icing in the cake... from a certain point of you.
But why did he turn?
For many reasons. However his "love" for Padme was one of them.
On one hand this love was instrumental in his fall, on the other hand it was this love that produced... Luke.
Then we know what happens in the OT.

But, can we say the task of T.C.O. is fully achived? I don't think so, judging by TFA and the new canon.
Yes, a bran new C.O. can go on and complete the prophecy.
But a C.O. that holds somehow the individuality of Anakin has a deeper emotional impact.

Let's think about the saber: that was Anakin lightsaber, that he lost the day he became Vader and the one Luke lost the day he knew Veder was his father.
If T.C.O.'s task is not complete, maybe them both (Anakin and Luke have still a part - almost equal - to play...
That was also the saber Anakin used to kill the padawans in th Jedi Temple, which is the perfect opposit to Snoke's fear of Skywalker returning to rise the New Jedi.
Could it also be the reason why Rey says "I don't wanna touch it anymore?"
Is this memory she's afraid of? Is this the lost memory Kylo felt searching her mind?
Probably not... but, who may knows?

Was Leia hugging her daugther, her niece, a random girl or someone holding the individuality of a father she never hugged?

As told, I think some of this staff could work in any case. But I guess I'd really love this one.

 

It's not a bad theory at all. I have my own theory, rather than make a new thread I thought this one would suit.

TL/DR version Snoke is not literally but is a character inspired by Jorus C'Baoth who went to the unknown regions, discovered Rakata technology and was transformed by it.

I've written a long version with the rationale here: Holy Snoke

 

I'm okay with this theory. I'd totally be in for a sequel trilogy where the villain is launching a galactic crusade against the scourge of doors, all because of his tragic backstory that was put into motion that fateful day on the Death Star.