SPECULATION Huge Theory About Episode IX & The Last Jedi

This! I came here for spoilers. @YubNubBub your thread should be tagged "Speculation", thanks.

 

agree @RockyRoadHux

@Pomojema can the title tags be changed?

 

Why do we think snoke is like god and knows the future. Probably it's just some sort of fear/guess/foreshadow that if the last Jedi returns he will built up a new Jedi Order.
Who says snoke would be right (accurate).

 

I think SW franchise cannot survive without 2 things: Jedi and lightsabers.
You can change all the rest, but not those two.

I also think, that the movies are a mass phenomenon just becouse they are... simple: good guys vs bad guys.
That's also the reason why the OT is still so much loved: it will never become "old" becouse it's "classical".
And it's classic because it's a tale about that conflict (good vs bad) without middle ground.
They are - in a few words - children movies, adults love.

Despite so, I agree some new seeds are planted in the new canon.
But I don't thik "middle ground" plots will be deepened in the next movies.
I think the contrary it's more likely.

Last but not least, the Journal of the Whills's quote.
It does not mention Bendu. It does not mention gray Jedi.

Gray is what has to be "resolved".
By the "refined sight" of the "Jedi" .

In other words, not Bendu or gray Jedi.
But Jedi that have to resolve the gray.
Whatever it means...

 

exactly, it means Jedi of old got corrupted by darkness, which resulted into gray PT Jedi (who lead a war). This gray has to be resolved and they need to return to the light.

 

What does resolving mean here?
If I have to resolve an equatation resolving doesn't mean making the equatation disappear/invalid but to understand what it means and getting a result.
So maybe the sights of the jedi need to refined so that the jedi can understand how the grey fits in.
Anger and passion aren't evil don't make you dark automaticly, it's how you handle them that would.
So the Jedi need to acknowledge that anger and passion are not dark in itself.
quoting Eph 4:26,27 because it fits:
“In your anger do not sin. Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry,
and do not give the devil a foothold."

So for the Jedi: Think twice before you let anger control your actions. Don't dwell on your anger so the dark site doesn't get a grip and it becomes hate.

 

I may be wrong, but - to me - that's what they've always done.
In the sense... people like Kenobi or Joda were not "angels".
They've just menaged to keep under controll "bad" feelings, they've menaged to avoid those feelings to prevail....
Which is different of being immune....

 

I think the difference here is between trying to avoid these feelings (that's what the Jedi tried) and allowing these feelings but being aware that you have to handle them with care.

 

Pablo said there were no such things as grey jedi. You're a jedi or you're not,, it's that simple.

 

If this is true, I think this is what concerned Lucas about the ST and why he said he was worried they'd turn the Force into "gobbledygook".
This theory is all based on the idea of the balance being about how the Jedi and Sith use the Force. But this is just plain wrong.
Clearly, Lucas presented a story where the balance slipped as the Sith took over. It had nothing to do with numbers of Jedi or Sith or how they used the Force but what they actually did. In the Sith's case they spread evil across the galaxy. And it is that which unbalanced the Force.

Again, we're told everything we need to know about what the Force is in the very first film:
"It is an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, it penetrates us, it binds the galaxy together.

So the Force has always been one energy field created by everything. And it is that energy which becomes unbalanced.
So how would this happen?
Clearly, light and dark (and grey) always exists. There is no chance of extinction of either.
But what the Sith do is empower the evil in the galaxy so it takes over the good. As we see in the opening crawl of ROTS:
"Evil is everywhere". What Lucas was telling us was that the war the Sith created has unbalanced the Force.
Yes, the Jedi were suckered into that war but it was the Sith who were behind it all.

This to me makes it very clear what Star Wars and the balance is about.
Those that use the Dark Side (selfish) spread evil.
The Jedi use the light (selfless/compassionate) and through this stop the Dark Siders.
That then enables good and evil in the galaxy to be balanced again.

Essentially, when there is war, all living things across the galaxy find themselves in the midst of evil. They are fearful. They are oppressed. They are enslaved. They are murdered. And so if we buy into the idea that the Force is created by all living things and that it is made up of light and dark and grey, then it is clear that when this bad stuff is going on then the living things that create the Force itself will be putting in more dark than light.

So when the Sith were about the Force itself was unbalanced because the energy created by all living things was darker. There was of course the grey/neutral energy of non-sentient beings and there was light created by those who were compassionate. But when the Sith were around, evil was easier to come by. It was everywhere. That was until, a new hope arrived on the scene. What Luke did (with his father) was not only destroy the Sith but they replaced oppression with hope and freedom. The war ended. There was peace. And light and dark was balanced.

But to suggest that the Jedi in their current form doesn't work is absurd.
The Jedi did fail in the PT but Yoda and Ben understood those mistakes and with Qui Gon's wisdom, rectified it. They changed their ways and were successful in training Luke. A Jedi MUST BE absolutely selfless and compassionate. This idea that they should use the dark side if their intentions are honourable is to completely miss the point. The Dark Side IS ANGER. HATRED. SELFISHNESS. GREED. In order for the Jedi to hear the will of the Force (which is what guides them to keep the balance) they have to be "calm, passive...at peace". They have to be connected to every living things and no just care exclusively for things that matter to them. They have to see themselves as part of the whole.

This is what concerns me about the story group. I feel that they are more interested in finding ways to continue the story rather than doing what is right and what makes sense. And there are certainly signs of this idea running through the ST. The dialogue about Kylo "having too much Vader in him" and being a product of both light and dark, doesn't make sense. Vader wasn't born evil. He was once a great kid that turned bad because of bad choices. It should be the same with Ben Solo. The idea that a child is born with equal parts good and evil is absurd....gobbledygook.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 6, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 6, 2017 ---

THIS.

The Jedi weren't corrupted. They weren't "grey". They simply failed at resolving the grey. They didn't "keep their concentration in the here and now" as Qui Gon would say. They were too detached from the living force and over reliant on the cosmic force. This arrogance meant that when the Sith emerged the Jedi were blind to what was going on. They made bad choices and their powers were diminished.

Yoda realises this all too late but humbly admits this and is retrained by Qui Gon somewhat. He adopts more of a focus on the living force and waits for the Force itself to take action.

People seem to think that the Jedi would be better off allowing a little bit of the Dark Side. I don't get this. If the Jedi weren't all that great at stopping the Sith before, how would using anger, greed, hatred and selfishness help the cause of the galaxy? How would that serve the will of the Force?

 

Not just that but at the end of ROJ he was emotional and drew upon the darkside as he was fighting.

 

This amazes me. Sorry but you completely missed the point being made in the movie.
When Luke chokes the guards we are meant to think, "Dang, he's acting like Darth Vader. He could turn evil". Then when he fights Vader and gets angry we're supposed to think, "Dang, he's giving into his hate. He is going to become Vader".

Then when Luke throws down his saber we're meant to think "Yey! He's rejected the Dark Side, let go of his anger and has now become a Jedi!".
Nothing suggests that Luke is a "grey Jedi" or believes the Jedi are ok to use the Dark Side in any way. Quite the opposite.

 

I think the Dashstar makes a good case for his view = the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy will end with a 'chemical wedding' kind of union, a middle way that is greater than the sum of its parts. It's a neat idea (an Dashstar is certainly not the first to post it), and it basically makes Star Wars into Dark Crystal. I like it, although I am very far from convinced that the video is "99,9% true"

So, by extention, a confrontation (union?) between Rey & Kylo will bring about the middle road, greyness rising like the phoenix from the ashes, kind of thing. I wonder, could the story team be playing around with a Dune analogy here? Going for a version of God-Emperor's 1000-year Golden Way lesson that taught humanity to stop believing in totalitarian leaders once and for all? ( <-- grossly simplified summary of what the Golden Way was, but still)

 

LOL No I got the point of that... But he did use darkside along with jedi techniques in the films whether he knew they where ok to use or not. That is what I meant hes always kinda been balanced.

 

But the point was that wasn't a good thing. And that isn't balanced. Before Luke confronted Vader a second time and then rejected the dark side, he was on a dangerous path.

That whole film was about setting us up to think that Luke could turn bad. It did that having him do un-Jedi like things. But only at the end does he become a true Jedi when he overcome the dark side - both within and the Sith.

 

Yes I know it was a bad thing but not once was I convinced he would go to the darkside. Anyway you can view a story many ways just because I see it one way doesn't mean I am right. I just like to look at things differently sometimes.

 

Without a clear concept of good and evil you turn Star Wars into garbage. The best example I can think of this is the Matrix Trilogy. After the first film there was a clear concept of good and evil. By the time they added the next two films the story became something else entirely. There's no good or evil. While this might work in some cases, it won't work for the Star Wars Universe. Once you lose the concept of good and evil who cares?

 

Im still confused as to why people are using the term "grey Jedi" when there's no such thing...it doesn't matter what Luke is but he's a Jedi so he's full on light side now. The force was back in balance at the end of ROTJ...my biggest criticism is WHY the new story group chose to take it out of balance while it goes against everything the force and the Jedi stand for...I get grey/middle FS but they don't adhere to any order otherwise then you're predominantly black and white, which is what GL's vision was the entire time.

 

But you don't need a supernatural force/concept to measure everything against.

The Jedi and Sith are largely influenced by the Samurai an Samurai movies (Mifune was even his first choice to play Obi-wan, but he turned it down cause he thought it was lampooning Samurai). If you look at samurai and samruai movies, there isn't a big over reaching good vs evil force connecting everyone. The hero in movie might be seen as the villain in another (similar to American Westerns). Its more about an individuals values and how that individual reacts to certain situations.

Hell, just look at non-Jedi heroes within Star Wars. Han and Finn are both "good" guys fighting evil but they don't fit into that light side/dark side conflict that the force using characters do. You can and would still have good and evil in the stories even if they change the nature of the force and those who use it. They have already gotten rid of Sith and replaced them with the Knights of Ren.........who says the Jedi are 100% safe (I've thought they might go that way for a while).

Now a good example of this kind of storytelling screwing things up are the Dragon Lance novels. If anyone read them in the 80's and early 90's you know there was a system of arcane and divine magic set up with the different sources, dieties and ways of using those magic's established and defined. Then they did a big storyline that ended with all the gods leaving the world and all that arcane and divine magic going away and being replaced with other things.........and it killed the universe. It wasn't what people were interested in anymore.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 6, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 6, 2017 ---

Because its in the middle of the light and dark.