SPECULATION Huge Theory About Episode IX & The Last Jedi

I think we need to remember something about the Jedi. It's a title given to people who follow teachings of their order. It would be like someone in the Catholic church being named a Priest. You can be a Christian without being a Priest. You can be a light side user without being a "Jedi". (Ashoka). You cannot be a light side user like a Jedi without their teachings. You cannot be a Christian without the churches teachings.

So many fans seem to want a Grey Jedi - "Joe Sixpack" morals and Jedi "superpowers". I don't believe it works that way.

 

Exactly this.

The idea of "Grey Jedi" gives rise to the argument of "Grey Sith"; they would just be a light and dark version of the same "grey", in the same exact way the Jedi and Sith were just compassionate and selfish Force users.

The more I think about it, the more this sounds like Avatar: The Legend of Korra, and I can see it going a similar way; in TFA, we'll probably find out later on that many Force sensitives were "awakened" in the Force, like Rey was, and they will join this "grey" faction (which I'm just going to refer to as the Bendu for now).

 

This just doesn't work for me on many levels, but mostly as a moral tale for the Star Wars target audience - kids!
It just cannot be that the message is that the heroes are the people in the middle, doing good and evil or nothing at all.

I'll bet all my credits that this will not happen.
If it does, I have nothing to lose because it will make a joke out of the franchise.

People learn from their mistakes.
Luke failed with Ben but seemed to be doing okay until his nephew screwed everything up.
Rey can help Luke to believe in himself as a master/teacher again and help him build what he promised Yoda on his death bed - that he will pass on what he has learned.

 

Sorry, you are not getting a "Grey faction". That literally makes no sense from a story telling perspective or from the already established cannon. The Bendu was a force sensitive individual who could wield neither dark nor light. That ability is unique to him alone. Sensitive in the force but unpracticed in either dark or light.

What would be the point of a bunch of grey force users running around? They wouldn't have conflict or fight. They wouldn't help anyone or be compassionate. They would be what exactly?

 

Ashoka is a light side force wielder, but not a Jedi.
Maul is a dark side force wielder, but not a Sith.

I'm not sure about being "gray", but one can certainly be light or dark without subscribing to the religious order of either side. It's how you interact with the force and the condition of your heart (as Lucas said, selfish or compassionate) that defines you, not your religious affiliation to an order.

 

Except that it paints the world that we live in: there is no absolute good or bad, but rather every action, and as a result the person catalysing such an action, is a different shade of grey. Also, if I recall, Lucas originally said that anyone could use the Force (as alluded to in Rebels), but it's only the Jedi and Sith who have historically had the commitment to learn the ways of the Force.

If this theory is at all right - that a "grey" will emerge and the Force will finally be balanced - it signals the end of the Skywalker saga and nothing but that. I fail to see how that makes the franchise a joke.

He was instructed to pass on what he has learned, yes, not to restore the Jedi Order (which would in turn give rise to conflict such as the one now against the rising First Order, Snoke and the Knights of Ren).

Also, I think Luke may have already failed to some degree before Kylo wiped out the Order anyhow, highlighted by the fact that if what we see in Rey's vision is the destruction of Luke's New Order, why wasn't he around to protect them? One may argue he might have been elsewhere, but by clutching R2 it is illustrated that he perhaps felt their destruction at the hands of his nephew, and the fact that the rain begins with him before a quick panning shot into a scene of the assumed New Order, drenched in rain, destroyed at the hands of Kylo and the Knights of Ren, suggests that he is also on the same planet.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2017 ---

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying here. A "grey" faction would keep the peace, much like the Jedi, and keep balance in the Force.

Of course they can be compassionate. Of course they'd be able to help. I don't mean "grey" literally in that if they do something the Force is suddenly out of balance, not that they are just a merging of the Jedi and Sith into one entity.

And, as I've mentioned, if this theory holds any weight anyhow, then this would more than likely make the ST the final trilogy entry into the Skywalker saga.

 

Lucas did say that. But he also said that Star Wars is about greed vs selflessness. Compassion vs hate.
And as much as the world is "grey", people need to make choices over whether they act compassionately or selfishly. Star Wars is a moral tale that shows where those choices lead you.

So where a Jedi may make a choice that has consequences, it will be the right choice if they act compassionately and selflessly.
As Yoda says to Luke when he asks how he will know the good from the bad: "You will know when you are calm, passive, at peace".
It's about rationality over emotion.
That is how you resolve the grey.

Because the Jedi are true heroes who act selflessly. It makes no sense to abolish that and create an order called Bendu which acts in both good and bad ways.

Without the Jedi there can be no balance in the Force.
The First order ROSE IN SKYWALKERS ABSENCE I believe it says in the opening crawl. That is the point.
The Jedi order doesn't create conflict, it fights those that spread evil and disrupts the balance of the force.

We will see. I'm sure Luke did make some mistakes. If he didn't then he wouldn't be haunted.
But that doesn't = death to the Jedi!

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2017 ---

Why would this help keep the balance?
The balance of the Force was eroded by the dark forces (Sith) when they spread evil across the galaxy.
The Jedi were the people who simply lived to stop that evil from being spread. Their commitment to the light is what made that possible.

It would be an end to the Star Wars saga, more like.

#gobbledygook

 

The point the Bendu makes about the Sith holocron - it isn't the object that is evil, it is the user's intentions. Grey does not mean neither good nor bad, neither light nor dark, but the ability to wield the force in it's entirety - both light and dark. What you do with that power depends on your point of view.

 

Except that grey =/= acting in both a good and bad way! What I'm suggesting is not some middle ground, but rather an absolute ground: that THE FORCE - living, cosmic, light, dark - is one entity, and that this "grey" faction will not be Jedi nor Sith, but a faction of the Force itself; to spread compassion and peace.

It says that they rose in his absence from the ashes of the Empire if I recall, as in, they would have risen anyway because of the Emperor's murder and such at the end of ROTJ.[/QUOTE]

Again, it invites conflict. Yes, they fight evil, but by doing so they only invite more conflict. Heck, they fought the Sith to the point that they changed their ideals and landscape for the sake of exacting revenge, almost destroying the Jedi Order!

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2017 ---

The Star Wars saga is the Skywalker saga, so I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. Perhaps you meant franchise?

Look, if my opinion differs from yours, then that is fair, and I'm more than happy to agree to disagree and move on. However, I've seen you jump on other's posts all too much in the thread about Luke being Rey's father in the same way that you are mine. I have respected your argument and kept my own clean and concise; I see no need to attempt to patronise me.

 

I'm not sure I understand - are you saying you believe that a person in the Star Wars Universe is unable to use the Force at all unless their morals are at one extreme end of the spectrum or the other? So if, for example, Luke decided became more selfish, but didn't turn evil - he just had the general character of an average person, he would no longer be able to use the Force?

I've watched Rebels, but I haven't gotten into all of the books and comics. I'm curious, where was it established that the Bendu was unable to wield the Force? Or that existing in the area between the light and the dark prevents him from doing so? I've never heard that before.

And if that is the case, is it really unique? Isn't that true of Maz Kanata? She's Force sensitive but doesn't appear able to wield it.

There are lots of great stories in fiction about morally gray characters - most great characters are. Considering that there aren't any human beings that are wholly good or evil, it stands to reason that the best fictional characters would not be either.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that a "gray" force user would do nothing at all. Just that their choices would not be governed entirely by a dogmatic view of right and wrong.

 

Objects are neither dark nor light. A gun can be used for good (defense, hunting) or evil (robbery, murder).

I interpret the Dark Side and the Light Side as degrees of the force. Anyone from 0% to 49% Gray is on the Light "side" of the middle. The opposite for the dark side. The reason I believe the Bendu is so rare is that he is one of the few creatures right at 50%. Most other beings will lean one way or another. Keep in mind, with that theory, everyone has some gray unless they are completely pure or completely evil.

 

That's the point. The Bendu is teaching Kanan to trust in the choices he and his apprentice will make.
The Sith holocron doesn't make you evil, but how you act does.
If Kanan and Ezra are trained to act compassionately and rationally then they have nothing to fear.
All the Bendu really is, is a wise sage that doesn't actually do anything. But his advice is pro-light side. Pro-balance.

You've kind of just made my point for me here: "to spread compassion and peace".
That is what the Jedi do. And they do it by rejecting the dark side.
How would someone grey be any better at spreading compassion and peace by holding on to and cultivating their "bad side"?

Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed.

They fought the Dark Side poorly in the PT. That was the point. They didn't do a good job at stopping it and ended up fighting in a war set up by the Sith. But that doesn't mean that the Jedi shouldn't exist and fight the forces of evil - heck, the OT was about the resurrection of the jedi to do exactly that! And Luke did do that. And his father destroyed the Sith. And there was balance.

Yes, it will ruin the franchise.

I think you're being overly sensitive here.
I'm not jumping on your posts or disrespecting your right to an opinion.
But I can't help it if I think you're wrong and it'd get boring very fast if I began and ended each of my posts with "In my opinion" or "I hate to disagree...".
Let's not get carried away here. It's a message board. I'm disagreeing with you over a point in a movie.

 

Let me clarify, he could wield powers but not to do either dark or light things.

Cassian Andor from Rogue One was a morally gray character. There's a reason he's not a Jedi. To be practiced in the ways of the force, you have to embrace one side or the other. The power flows from light or dark. If you are morally conflicted, you cannot achieve the ability to use the force. Luke didn't believe he could life the X-Wing on Dagobah. As strong as the force flowed in him, he couldn't use it until his mind was right. That is what makes the power rare and special. The ability to be morally and mentally in a place where you can wield that power.

 

The Bendu, as I see it, in my opinion, from my point of view, is a being that simply stays out of galactic affairs and observes the galaxy around him.
That is what makes him grey.
But he clearly has an interest in keeping the balance. He helps Kanan overcome his fears so he can reconnect with the Force.
The Bendu isn't a being who is both good and bad. He is a being that is balanced between the light and dark side because he avoids the conflict. My guess is that he is based on the concept of the whills.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2017 ---

Also though, Cassian had a character arc where he was doing questionable things at first but did the right thing at the end. Same with Solo, Lando etc. They become heroes when they make the right choice. When they choose light. A Jedi is someone who makes that same choice and only by making that choice and sticking to it can they remain Jedi.

 

Like the vast majority of the people in the galaxy, he isn't strong in the Force.

I don't think that's true. I've never seen any suggestion of that, and there is ample evidence that characters that are able to wield the Force, do not lose their powers when they become conflicted. Anakin was clearly conflicted for much of Episodes 2 and 3, and he was still incredibly powerful, and had no trouble using the Force.

That had nothing to do with Luke's moral compass. Luke didn't doubt he could lift an X-Wing because he wasn't sure whether he was good or evil.

 

My point is simple. You cannot be in the middle. The force doesn't flow from the gray. It flows from the dark or light.

"Feel it, the light. It's always been there" - Maz Kanata.
"Show me again the power of the darkness" -Kylo Ren

Yoda said..."A Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind". You need that to remain in the light.

Nobody has said "Feel the power of both the light and dark side, feel the gray!" The gray is a temporary place based on your choices. Your choices only lead to dark or light.

 

But one doesn't have to pick light or dark in order to not be morally conflicted.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2017 ---

Bendu disagrees with you.

 

It seems to me that any character with the Force has been able to draw from both the Light Side and the Dark Side - it's up to the individual how they choose to use the Force. Nobody has said anything about the "Gray", because it hasn't come up yet, but to my knowledge there's been nothing established indicating it can't work.

Given that there is only so much to explore if the concept of the Force is kept completely black and white, I'd be willing to bet that the concept of "gray" force users is introduced sooner rather than later - even if it's just to explore why it ultimately can't work.

 

I think Kylo Ren is an example of going between light and dark, being somewhat near the middle ground (ish).

This is what makes him weak as he is neither a master of light or dark. This of course also makes him unpredictable and dangerous. Conflicted.

But look, what should a hero be? Compassionate. Selfless. Loving. Kind.
All the facets of a Jedi. At no point do we think a hero should or could be selfish or greedy.
Every hero in Star Wars, when they become heroes, do so by being virtuous, not grey.
A Jedi is simply one who chooses and walks that path from the get go.

In terms of grey characters being interesting - of course. But that is what we get with Star Wars.
Anakin, Luke, Han, Lando, Cassian, Jyn etc etc etc - all start grey and end in the light. We go on that journey with them.
It would be a bit weird if they just remained in the grey.

 

His advice can't be pro-light side and pro balance.

Balance of the force means the conflict between aspects of the force is resolved, that now there is only the force, that a user can call upon the force in all its aspects for good or bad. How could the victory of one side over the other bring balance? That would be the greatest imbalance. The prophecy was that the chosen one would bring balance, which Anakin did by destroying Sith plans for the domination of the dark side by killing Palpatine. Anakin, was redeemed but the act that redeemed him, was driven by pure emotion, by attachment to his son. It was the same emotion which brought him to the dark side. Defying both Sith and Jedi orthodoxy, he brought balance. Luke too had used aspects of the dark side for good. At that moment, both remaining force wielders were in perfect balance.