SPECULATION Huge Theory About Episode IX & The Last Jedi

Or move past both. Don't embrace either the Dark nor the Light.

Embrace the Force. 'Dark' and 'Light' are just labels for two different groups with two different goals (goals of selfish and compassionate desires respectively), but the Dark Side nor the Light Side are the actual Force itself.

If I shine a light through a prism, for example, it may result in a rainbow of colours being seen coming out the other side, or the light may reflect back in the direction it came from. Perspective is a key thing to have - as alluded to in the OT on many occasions - and the perspective - and relative power and use - of the Force becomes tarnished (or filtered, for lack of a better word) by the desires of the user.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2017 ---

Well...I guess that's something I can't disagree with.

 

So far/that we know of

ANd of course if one person can do it, others can as well

 

He's an observer. He doesn't get involved in conflict. Sure, he can wave his hand around and move objects. But essentially, he doesn't join up with the Jedi or the Sith. He just observes them. BUT he desires balance. And this makes him pro-Jedi as they are the ones who maintain balance - hence why he helped Kanan balance himself.

But the point is, if the Jedi don't exist then those that do wield the Dark Side will take over and unbalance the Force.

 

I understand what you believe the result is - but that's not what I'm asking. I want to know what you see as the cause - is it the person's character (in that people are too weak willed to resist using the Dark Side once they've tried it), or is it that the Dark Side of the Force itself (in that it corrupts like a virus that is not subject to issues of character)?

 

I see.
I'd say it is someone's character. However, I think there is an argument to be made for the idea of the "dark side energy" that is part of the Force itself that can draw people in as well.

But really the point Star Wars makes is that your choices define you. That if you are a greedy person, you will simply become greedier and this will be your undoing. You either walking in two directions, you're never just standing still. You're either holding on to your greed and anger and moving towards the Dark Side OR you are letting go of these emotions and being compassionate and moving towards the light. There is a push and pull tension there but the Jedi resist the Dark Side and remain in the light. The Sith allow the Dark Side to take over and they move into the darkness.

 

How is that possible? What are you embracing? They have made it very clear that you can't embrace a neutral force. Luke asks Yoda "how an I tell the good side from the bad?" Yoda replies "you will know, when you are calm, at peace, passive. A Jedi uses the force for knowledge and defense, never for attack."

There is not one line of dialog from 7 movies that points to an ability to embrace "the middle" of the force. You embrace the force for good or bad intentions. Palpatine embraced a larger view of the force.....for EVIL. Unnatural purposes. Selfish and self serving purposes of becoming more powerful.

 

I don't read the books really. Maybe I should. But I'll call Luke's first attempt naiive or premature... just because he was stopped once doesn't mean he can't try again. Or one of his students becomes a leader of the academy.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2017 ---

The Bendu path is neither Jedi or Sith. Think of them as being more buddhist monk. They don't choose a side... the sides just "are". They also don't seek to do "right" or "wrong" they just exist. Which is a path to knowledge... perhaps even enlightenment, but in terms of a "hero" that lack of choosing a side, makes them a bit hard to route for, from a certain point of view.

I wouldn't call this "gray" I'd call it passive, or outside the conflict of light and dark.

 

Yep, very well put, good sir.

 

I am not suggesting that they embrace a neutral Force. I am suggesting that they embrace THE Force.

The Force defaults to a phase of unity and progress - like many things in our own universe - and it's goal is to achieve balance, yes, but wiping out the Sith to bring balance? Surely that means that the Force has a predisposition to good - compassion, love, and so on?

We already know that there will always be some Dark Side to the Force - there will always be evil in the galaxy far, far away as there always will be in any galaxy with free will - yet even with this faint echo of the Dark Side, the Force is prophecised to become balanced by the Chosen. If the Force becomes balanced by wiping out the Sith/Dark Side users with evil intent on a galaxy-wide scale, perhaps the Dark Side - when used by someone who can harness it, not that naturally exuded by the actions of anyone - should be viewed as a corruption of the Force. To suggest such a thing would imply that the Force is naturally aligned with the Light, and it was. Restoring balance is then, surely, more than likely returning it to such a state?

What I'm admitting is that perhaps describing it as a "grey" area is a poor choice of words. But the Jedi, they became flawed, and this is not personified any better than in the fall of countless Jedi. Midichlorians, forbidden attachments...the Jedi lost their way, and as Pablo said, it became more "Order" than "Jedi".

The truth is that the Force is naturally aligned with the Light - with progress of life, and the cosmos, not loss of it - and the "grey" Jedi alluded to by myself and others should be not taken as the Jedi or Bendu, but rather the purest and original concept of a Jedi: to spread the teaching of the Force and to be a being of compassion.

 

If "balance" in the force was to be gray.... they why would the force even have a light and dark side.... it would just "be" like a natural force like gravity. light and dark wouldn't even exist.

 

Seem like none of the pt Jedi where Jedi. Most all of them did not follow the Jedi path 100%, which is what Pablo implies is prerequisite to being a Jedi.

 

That's exactly my point, as made in my above post. The fact that the Sith must b destroyed to bring balance to the Force implies that the Force has a natural predisposition towards the Light.

 

Or that the Dark side cannot be destroyed but the light MUST always do eveything it can TO destroy it... because perhaps the light can be extinguished. There is always darkness. Darkness is a default state... without a light.

 

Seem like the Force is a power that some can tap into where various emotions can increase or improve a Force ability. Certain dark emotions result in certain abilities and certain light emotions give users other abilities.

Grey would be a Force user who uses all emotions as needed to do whatever Force ability is needed.

A Good Force user could channel anger to produce Force Lightening to kill bad guys or vice versus.

 

The dark side and the light side will always exist. The Force becomes unbalanced when the Dark Side takes over the light.
This occurs when Dark Side users spread evil across the galaxy.
The Jedi destroy these people and balance returns.

 

Sure; as I alluded to, there will always be the Dark Side present to some extent in a galaxy of free will. However, it is worth pointing out that the Sith - and therefore the prophecy of the Chosen One - were born from the Light Side and the Jedi, not the other way around, meaning that the "balance" prophecised only became a goal after the fall of some Jedi and the corruption of the Force, meaning that, if the prophecy is to be true, the Force must have been balanced before (again, a predisposition to the Light).

 

I disagree. If they were able to conjure lightning that would imply they are using anger and hatred. And they'd have to be pretty experienced in doing so. They'd be going against everything that makes them a Jedi.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2017 ---

The balance has nothing to do with Jedi or Sith existing or not existing. Imbalance is a result of evil being spread across the galaxy. The Sith were very good at doing that. The Jedi were and are very good at destroying those who spread evil thus returning the balance to an equal mix of good and evil.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2017 ---

The film is ultimately about the dark side and the light side, and those sides are designed around compassion and greed. The issue of greed, of getting things and owning things and having things and not being able to let go of things, is the opposite of compassion - of not thinking of yourself all the time. These are the two sides - the good force and the bad force. They're the simplest parts of a complex cosmic construction.
- Time interview (Bill Moyers) 03/05/99

 

You DO know that the Jedi are supposed to be pretty much "Buddhist Monks" right
?

 

@master_shaitan except there can't be a balance of good and evil, as you alluded to, if one (the Sith) is destroyed, I imagine, even with the passive presence of the darkness due to the actions of free will?

just taking the Chosen One prophecy into account to begin with

 

Who is they? There is ample evidence That the force is just the force. The dark side OF THE FORCE - is the force from a certain point of view. The light side is the force from another. What would it take to resolve this and see the force in its value judgementless unity? Oh I dunno, refined Jedi sight maybe? Only mortals make value judgements. The force is all. The Jedi just became the orthodox view of the force, the Sith their greatest heresy, both were wrong. The grey walks in the light but embraces the shadows. To refine is to clarify, so this means that Jedi sight was clouded before, that they did not see clearly. The refinement process allows the Jedi to see past their former orthodoxy and embrace the force in its totality.

It doesn't imply that at all because episodes one to six didn't clarify what balance meant. The Jedi weren't even sure what the prophesy really meant. This trilogy will refine our understanding of the prophesy and of the force.