JJ Abrams Says Ep 8 Haters May Be Threatened By Women

Sure but do you have proof that at least one of Disney's number crunchers predicted the final BO correctly bc I am not aware of a single one? Also standard deviation is not really a factor when calculating the potential BO of movies. No movie series I am aware of has 250+ movies so analysts use data like "BO in different countries", interest in trailers, number ob tickets sold in presales, number of google searches, etc. These predictors all indicated that TLJ would do almost as good as TFA (90% ticketsales in pre-sale, most clicked trailer in 2017, etc)... The thing that caught them off guard was the rapid decline in interest after only a couple of days after the release of TLJ. Again, the fact that nobody could forsee this rapid decline is telling.

 

I think you're misinterpreting my original point. We don't have the internal Disney projections. I'm not really interested in discussing the battle of online taking heads.

 

So just because there is no data from Disney you'd rather not discuss the data that's out there at all? Why automatically discredit all the experts out there as incompetent just because they are not on Disney's payroll? If anything, doesn't it make them more unbiased? And why then do you trust Cinemascore? Seems like you chose to ignore data if it doesn't fit your own personal bias.

 

Again, I was talking about Disney and their number crunchers. You keep taking the discussion somewhere else.

I didn't say that. I said:

That's a very reasonable position for me to take. Can you respect that?

They're one of the scientific scores out there. I think I lean more towards ComScore/Screen Engine. These are trusted by the industry and they're scientific.

You can believe whatever you want. That's the beauty of free discourse.

 

I don't doubt these new movies make money, I don't doubt these movies guarantee everyone its income for a while. What I see as a question if it gets a new fanbase (after they want to get rid of old schoolers like me). I mean a fanbase who buys all toys, merch, novels etc even in years with poor movie results. Casuals come and go. They may easily root more for the next Hunger Games lookalike. Just a good guess from me.

 

The article is pretty clickbait-y, but I certainly agree with JJ. There is definitely a group of haters which dislike the entire ST and Disney SW because they feel threatened by something or because it's not being made by Lucas anymore. There is also a group which pretends not to be from that group, but you can easily tell they are. Even on this forum... And once you go into the theatre even with the fragment of a bias as such, negativity stems far easier (and louder).
Visit the Youtube channel "Jar-Jar Abrams" for proof. Every second comment is about feminism, jews or some similar alt-right mantra. And these people are all over the internet for a long time now.

Thank you, a sane opinion at least. Although I'd use "willfully ignorant" instead of "arrogant".
Or do people really think BP's RT score is really the same as Justice League's? Or it's initial 6,5 on IMDB...

In my experience it's the hardcore fans that hate it the most. I have yet to meet a casual in real life who disliked it as much as the internet suggests.

Why do you think it must generate a new fanbase? Seriously, the fact that a 40 years+ saga is still this incredibly successful is unprecedented in Hollywood's history. Why do you think these movies should continue to be as successful as they were in their prime? The fact that this amount of people are still interested is more than enough for an overdone series like this imo.
Even if ep IX won't going to sell a single ticket, they still wrote history...

 

Right.. most of them just don't talk about it and ya know.. live their lives.

My sister didn't like the film... I doubt she's given it a seconds thought since. Casuals don't complain, they just don't go back.

And from my experience, kids don't give two nickels about SW. The ones I know have seen the films, and have *a lot* of other stuff that occupies their time. Kids care more about their Social Networks, Minecraft, or really the latest streaming show these days, than they ever will about some movie series. They simply have far more options than we had as kids.

 

I'm sad you were disappointed in Luke.

I'm a longtime Luke fan.
When the ST was announced I was only really expecting a generic mentoring role for him with maybe a Force trick or two.
Instead I got to see him center stage, have a genuine arc, overcome real challenges with the help of his old friends R2 and Yoda, and be a hero again.
I even get to look forward to another movie where he can play the mentoring role with a trick or two.

About the only thing I feel I missed was a bit of banter between the OT3.

That's an understatement.
Being upset about something is a powerful motivator.
I just read the last dozen pages of RT audience reviews and there were plenty of people saying they were only logging on to review TLJ because they hated it...

...and only one who admitted joining just to say it was alright.

Of course I'm not claiming anything about the legitimacy of good or bad reviews.
I came away from my first viewing feeling weird about it and I see many understandable reasons why fans dislike the film.

What I am claiming, as anyone who has listened to talk back radio or read newspaper comments can attest to, is that upset people are more likely to make the effort to share their opinion on public platforms. (And sometimes it's me!)

 

Clearly they're not doing a good job. Right.. I'm sure all the evil Disney executives over there are twirling their evil mustaches and trying to push your generation out the door. Because that makes total sense.

 

I won't try to understand what Disney have planned for SW.
All I know is that eventually the current generation of "Disney SW fans" will be betrayed later. I'll even hold my breath.

 

Was it like this in the Prequel era of films? "Lucas is totally trying to kill off the previous generation of Star Wars fans. I hate it." Where is this generation idea coming from?

 

Someone who cares more about the overall popularity of TLJ needs to quantify terms like "large, minority, tiny, small portion ect..." means. Those terms are all rather vague and until there are numbers (they'd be fictional guesses, but it's better than nothing) to back up those claims you can actually be agreeing with each other and/or arguing over semantics.

You'd also need to quantify what like, love, dislike, hate ect. means. Does it mean 100% going to watch EPIX, 50%, 0%, something in between?

I don't have a strong opinion on this subject either way, but still, for my enjoyment reading your debate, quantify that shift.

 

My above post could be edited so that it doesn't include the word generation. The word generation may have given the impression I meant a certain age group.

I just meant people who praises Disney version of Star Wars to the sky. These people will be disillusioned by Disney sooner than later.

 

Geez, they're just dumb popcorn flicks. I think you're taking this a bit to seriously.

 

I know, but they lied to me about the Canonicity of SW books and made me "waste" close to a thousand dollars just to know what happens to Luke and his family/students/friends. in the next book.
And now they are calling me names.

Thank you Disney.

 

Who made you waste money? Who lied to you?

 

waste money: I guess I have to take responsibility for that, seeing as I bought the now Legend books which are fake history in universe.
lied to me: Leland Chee and Pablo Hidalgo: SW books are canon. WE will make sure everything jived with the films by making a holocron. It's C Canon.
and KK for promising to "protect these characters."

 

When did they say that legends would remain canon. I enjoyed the Thrawn Trilogy when it came out, but I quit reading after that. It was clear to me even then that if they ever got around to make movies again those books would be tossed aside.

Some of those stories are great. Are the less great because they're not movie adaptations? In the end these are simply stories. They're not real. If you enjoyed them I wouldn't consider it a waste.

 

Actually.. with the Prequel films people were claiming Lucas was fornicating with their childhoods without permission.

Its really not that much different. Lucas always saw the films as kids films, and the OT worshippers saw them as far more than that. So when Lucas started dropping in characters like Jar Jar Binks that only kids could love(and even then, not really) into the canon, people freaked. It wasn't that he was trying to kill them off, there was simply a disconnect in the differences in vision of the IP and that led to a ton of backlash against the prequels. That led to Lucas realizing he can do that stuff in animation along with moral stories and all that and made The Clone Wars.

What fans(and really Disney) want is something similar to Marvel with interconnected IP that are set in the SWU. But that stuff is hard and takes planning and someone deep into story structure with a strong hand. That *Is Not* Kathleen Kennedy. Taking $400 million dollars of money(budget + marketing) to build quality characters in Rogue One like Jyn Erso, only to then kill her off because the head person in charge can't story plan and wants to Keep Things Simple, is pointless. Its a massive waste of time and resources. You should be building movie-to-movie while adding to the canon, not tearing things down. Soon, there will be Rey and Ren and not much else. And neither of the two are bankable stars yet, and TLJ did Ridley no favors.

What LucasFilm currently wants(via KK) is to beat people over the head with feminist politics by having rudimentary story constructs like the subordinate that disobeys Her Orders, only to find out in the next story beat she was apparently Right All Along. But don't worry, he's cute and yummy, so its all good(which in turn invalidates the entire point proving it to be a stunt to 'teach' the audience rather than constructing a solid narrative).

I've seen more realistic depictions of space militaries in the Space Balls movie.

 

The good thing is the legends books still exists. See it like in Flash series as a multiversum. Just read the legends books as the real story what happened to Luke, Han and Leia. I will do the same.