SPECULATION Kylo Ren's Secret Mission

do we know for sure Luke was looking for the Jedi Temple before? i haven't been following the Luke stuff.

i agree that Luke went in search of something rather than merely frugging off in a despair. his look at the end of TFA seems to say he hasn't found it or isn't quite ready to process it.

i hadn't thought about Ren possibly not giving a crap about Luke necessarily so much as finding Ahch-To. you may be onto something. hmmmm

say more about Vader's castle. was that just preliminary discussion?

 

destroy, i can see. turn? that's not tracking for me. i feel like i am at a disadvantage (not having much knowledge of the EU) to imagine what knowledge or artifact Luke might be guarding. there aren't any loose threads from the OT to pull that i can think of.

that sounds vaguely familiar now (with the Falcon, etc.). what might Vader have had that everyone would want? i guess it's the same question.

 

Somehow I think if Kylo touched the lightsaber, he would have seen something different than Rey, since Force visions tend to be intensely personal (judging primarily from Luke's vision in the cave on Dagobah in Episode V).

Vader did present Luke with the "as father and son" pitch, so that could be a very real possibility, that Kylo might wish to bring that about somehow. In that respect, Han, from Kylo's Snoke-twisted mind, might be construed the "weak link" he thought he had to remove to make it even more possible. Twisted indeed!

Anakin was driven to turn to save Padme, and Palpatine suggested it could be a joint venture of theirs to discover the secret. As far as we know, it was likely unfinished work, making it also a good possibility that this is the thing Kylo wishes to finish.

True control requires self-control, which Kylo has been shown not to have (unless he does and has been putting on a royal show before Snoke in hopes of tricking him into believing he's a true Dark Sider so he could attempt to defeat Snoke).

I agree: for Luke, this must be about much more than the otherwise massive grief he would have felt. The Luke Skywalker we know from earlier films shrank from no challenge, however big or impossible. So I'm of the mind there must be more to it than that.

The Knights of Ren and Kylo's quest for artifacts make the search for the Jedi Temple all the more interesting.

On the other hand, perhaps there's nothing there, and Luke Skywalker, having reached it, scoured the islands high and low, comes to realize that the earliest Jedi were simply -- at the simplest level -- in direct dialogue with the Force, and therefore produced no surviving artifacts other than the elaborate stonework for the stairs and their dwellings.

Every time I think about these things I'm seeing more possibilities...

JediMasterRobert

 

Kylo Ren is asking Vader Mask: "Show me, gradfather..."

But even my 8 year old padaw..., sorry my son, has spontaneously told this: How can Kylo ask Vader to help him when we knows only existing spirit of him is Anakin's, who has turned to light in the last moments of his life.. Exactly told by my 8 years old kid.

I believe my kid is right.

If this is right, Kylo is secretly calling his grandfathers's spirit, and the only one is Anakin, on the Light side.The only one, to show him the way how to manage to be on a Dark side, and than turn to the light in a moment of weakness of Snoke, to kill him. Anakin's spirit is on a Light side, but his experience of transition from when he was at the Dark side, and experience of transition to the Light again is invaluable. No any Force user ever had this experience.

What a price Kylo has paid, he must kill Han , his father, and this is for greater good. Thats why he ask Han, help me, but I believe also, understand me please....

And Kylo fears he will never be as strong as Vader, that he could never turn back to the Light.

To became trusted apprentice of Plag.. sory Snoke. And than, after he gives himself to the Dark side fully, and became so close to Snoke, after Snoke teach him everything, to turn like his gradfather, and finish what his grandfather has started, kill the evil.

Kylo Ren, greatest hero of them all.?

 

Perhaps Ren wants to get knowledge from Sith AND Jedi origins just to use the force in every possible way and get the most powerful being to get one step beyond Vaders incomplete achievements. Vader could not get rid of Sidious in context of becoming the one and only ruler. In Kylos eyes Luke is responsible for the death of his grandfather. Perhaps he thinks if it had been him he would have joined Vader and rule the galaxy as father and son. He is "only" the son of Han and Leia ("like having a muggle father in HP"). He wishs that he had been the son of Vader. Then the Skywalkers dynasty would rule the galaxy instead of fearing the remnants of the empire or Snoke.

 

Great post!! I keep forgetting that Kylo addresses his grandfather, not Vader per se. It's only Rey who claims he worships the Vader part of Skywalker senior - because she's seen Kylo with Vader's helmet.

After seeing the Clone Wars mini-series (which is no longer canon), I'm tempted to accept Anakin Skywalker's venture to the Dark side as some kind of sacrifice for the greater good. He did it because he alone was able to and nobody else was. Kylo may want to prove himself by emulating his grandfather.

 

What if he's not on some secret mission and he really is worshipping the Sith apprentice that his grandfather used to be? Because that is all I see right now.

 

Kylo is Force sensitive, he must know what Force spirits are real and which are not.

But wait, Luke have trained young Ben/Kylo for some time ( for years probabaly) as we know. He must have told Kylo what happened to his gradfather,abut ghost appearances..

Luke must have told Ben (now Kylo) that his gradfather's spirit appeared to him in the glory together with Ben Kenobi and Yoda there afther the battle of Endor.

So, after knowing this, Kylo is askingh some other spirit?

I hope this is not just a big story flow made by Disney but true plot behind.

 

Sure, that could be.
But Ben's apparent worshipping of "the Sith apprentice that his grandfather used to be" seems to be the starting point for the Skywalker/Solo family tragedy that drives the TFA plot. In terms of dramatic structure, I'd be surprised if TPTB decided that Leia wanted her son to train with Luke because of "too much Vader" in him, and by the end of TFA, Leia has lost her brother, her son, and her husband, and there is still "too much Vader" in Ben/Kylo. Unless there is an ultimate pay-off in Kylo's journey to the dark side, this sounds like a very forgettable dramatic arc. I can't imagine that Lucasfilm deliberately think up a story like that if they want the sequels to be as memorable as the OT. That's why I'm convinced there's more to the Kylo-grandfather dynamic.

 

i want to believe this, but Ren's confusion about Vader is likely the product of Snoke's manipulation. it's unclear whether Ren can make distinctions between Vader and Anakin at this point (i hope he can and that there is some part of his relationship with grandpa that's contrary to what Snoke thinks it is).

the only evidence (to my mind) that suggests this so far is that Ren treats grandpa like a confidant, and he hides this from Snoke.

but again, what that means remains to be seen. whether he's actually appealing to the Dark for the Dark's sake or whether he's appealing to the Dark to shield him from Snoke, is unclear.

i've said before that i don't think Ren is capable of too deep a subterfuge, but as a purely defensive mechanism, i can totally find this plausible.

 

Agree. Grandfather Vader seems to be the last refuge for a character that never found a place for himself where he is in peace with himself.. a little bit like Vader until Luke showed him the last possible exit to go in peace. Maybe Rey could do something similar for Ren.. just a wishful thinking..

 

My thinking exactly. Ren never "wanted" to have to go through with killing his father, and pushed the thought of the act out of his head until daddy showed up and ruined his day.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 1, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 1, 2016 ---

Your first scenario is by far the best plot idea I've ever read. God I hope the writers are as brilliant as you are because it connects the dots perfectly. Not only is it a logical motive for Ren, but it also provides the importance for who Rey is and why she was abandoned. I'd love to see this play out.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 1, 2016 ---

I've sat around wondering more about LST and his history than any other questions TFA brought up.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 1, 2016 ---

Dude, that pic creeped me out. Lol

 

Kylo did mention wanting to finish what grandfather started. Grandfather spent most of the OT trying to turn Luke...

 

Well that's literally what's already happening lol .

 

it could be, but I personally think that Kylo had a vision when he touched Vader's helmet, but unlike Rey's one, it was a vision caused by the dark side of the force that permeats the helmet, and so he thinks that the vision was his grandfather spirit talking to him

I don't know if he knows about force ghosts, if I were in Luke I wouldn't have told a problematic boy about the possibility of becoming immortal or "cheat death", the last time it happened it didnt go that well for the jedi and the galaxy...

 

If Luke has knew boy is problematic he would not loose him.
Besides what kind of Jedi does not teach padawan everything he knows.

So Kylo knows that Anakin's spirit has joined the Force on a Light side, but, he may be warshipping an ilusion. Maybe Snoke told him about Sith ghosts.

Its canon actually, in Clone Wars , the Sith ghost of Darth Bane appeared, but this ghost was linked to his thomb.

Watch this Yoda visit the valley of dead Sith Lords on Moraband planet:

BTW I believe Moraband(Korriban) planet will be in new trilogy, in fact Snoke could be there.

 

A jedi would teach everything to a padowan, but not immediatly, only when the padownan is ready to learn. Becoming a force ghost is basically the "ultimate power" of a jedi, and it should be the last teaching that a master gives to his padowan.
Still I don't think it's impossible that Kylo knows about it. In TFA novelization Kylo and Snoke agree on the fact that Vader's life was an exemple until he Was seduced by the light due to his feelings for his son, so it is possible that even if he saw anakin's ghost, he is still convinced that it wasn't the real anakin, but only the part of him that was seduced by the light, while he sees the presence in Vader's helmet as the true essence of his grandfather.

 

this is true.

destroying Luke's efforts to raise the Jedi might have been the fist step (and why Luke's still alive).

i guess i'm having a hard time thinking Kylo Ren believes he could succeed at turning Luke when he can barely maintain himself.

and yet, he was awfully confident that Rey was just going to leap into his arms on such a flimsy ill-timed offer, so we're back to the deluded little land he lives in. interesting....