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SPECULATION Kylo Ren's Secret Mission

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by master_shaitan, Feb 25, 2016.

  1. Josh7797445

    Josh7797445 Rebel Trooper

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    Kymoley Ren (I'm begging you to please not downvote until you've read it all)

    • The Plan
    Luke Skywalker has been trying to get close to Snoke with no luck so he comes up with a plan (maybe with Han Solo) to send in a double agent and infiltrate the First Order. He saw that Ben Solo was his most promising student and trained him in both the light and dark sides with hope that he would be able to resist the dark side such just as Anakin Skywalker did. Luke then gave him Vader's helmet (which he had from the funeral pyre in episode VI) to give him strength.

    "Forgive me, I feel it again. The call to the light. Supreme Leader senses it. Show me again the power of the darkness and I will let nothing stand in our way. Show me, Grandfather, and I will finish what you started."

    Luke could talk to Obi Wan in the original trilogy so it wouldn't be that far fetched to think Anakin is helping him just as Obi Wan helped Luke. This idea is later reinforced when Kylo Ren in interrogating Rey.

    "You, you're afraid that you will never be as strong as Darth Vader."

    • The Bridge Scene
    He does realize that he will have to kill thousands to save billions but facing his father will be the only way to gain Stoke's trust.

    "Even you, Master of the Knights of Ren have never faced such a test"

    Okay, I'm not sure if Han was in on the plan (assuming this crazy theory is correct) but the bridge scene is conveniently is front of stormtrooper witnesses and has both character going through what seems like lines for the sake of anyone listening. When they get close enough to whisper, Ben Solo changes his tone.

    The Scene Dialoge

    "I'm being torn apart, I want to be free of this pain. I know what I have to do but I don't know if I have the strength to do it. Will you help me?" -Ben

    "Yes, anything" -Han "Thank you" -Ben

    • Actor Quotes
    In an appearance on Conan, the late night host questions Harrison Ford on the possibility of killing Han Solo during the original trilogy,

    "I thought the best utility of the character would be for him to sacrifice himself to a high ideal"

    Adam Driver has this to say about his character Kylo Ren,

    "When they think of their actions as morally justified, it makes them dangerous and unpredictable. There’s no level they won’t go to to accomplish what they’re after. I never thought of the character as an evil person."


    tl;dr Kylo Ren is an undercover good guy.
     
  2. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    this theory relies on some very questionable things.
    • even if Ben was Luke's most "promising student", as Kylo Ren he's got impulse control problems and he's an emotional mess. is this really someone who can effectively infiltrate the FO? and to what end?
    • Kylo Ren can't hide his emotions for anything. do you really believe he could hide from Snoke a plot at this depth? there's no evidence in the film that he's capable of plotting. he even lets on to Hux that he's off-rounding against Snoke's orders with regard to the droid. not clever if he's a double-agent.
    • a plot of this magnitude actually suggests Luke is okay with killing billions of innocent people, not thousands. that makes Luke a monster as bad or worse than whatever evil he's fighting against.
    and that's just to start.

    the actors' quotes bring nothing to the argument, unfortunately.

    re: Harrison Ford
    • Han Solo did sacrifice himself for a greater cause without there needing to be some grander plot. he gave up his life to try to save his son and even if Ren's response was not what he hoped for, he at least forgave him and asked for forgiveness as well. chances are this could be a key to saving Ren later.
    re: Adam Driver
    • Kylo Ren is incapable of understanding that his behavior is wrong, so of course he doesn't believe he's an evil person. Driver is remarking that villains believe that they are the heroes of their own story.
     
    #102 FN-3263827, Mar 5, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2016
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  3. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    You've organized this well, and I'd really like to believe Kylo is working for the greater good...but as @FN-3263827 and others have said, he just doesn't have the strength of mind and emotional discipline to carry off such an undercover feat.

    One thing, though, that gives me pause is this:

    I had always assumed this is because he's close enough to his dad that he doesn't have to yell. ;) But you're right...he really doesn't want this to be overheard. This is between him and his dad. :(
     
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  4. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    The Han sacrifice quote was about what Ford wanted for Han in ROTJ, wasn't it?
     
  5. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I've had a thought regarding Kylo's conflicting mission with Snoke and his desire to get to Luke.

    Firstly, Snoke is undoubtedly troubled by Luke's return. But what is interesting is his phrase "The new Jedi will rise".
    After Luke's first Jedi order was destroyed, Luke went off to find the first temple - clearly not just to grieve but because he was searching for something.
    Now if this turns out to be information regarding how to defeat Snoke, maybe this is why Snoke fears the "new Jedi" and why Kylo wants Luke...

    Bare with me...

    What if Snoke knows that Luke's quest could lead him to knowledge that could result in Snoke's demise? Options open for what this actually is. But what is clear is that Luke didn't have all the answers to how he would create a new order, he was known to be seeking knowledge with Lor San Tekka and Snoke quite easily took advantage of Luke's weakness. But it is odd how Snoke fears Luke's Jedi when he has quite easily destroyed the first lot. So this to me indicates why Snoke fears Luke's return - because he will return will new knowledge. New knowledge that will create a "new Jedi" (note: Return of the Jedi speaks of the old order returning. Snoke could just "The Jedi will rise again"."New Jedi" to mean indicates there will be something "new" about them), capable of conquering Snoke and whatever his "special power" is, be it some magical power or something to do with his past.

    Now, Kylo Ren. We know that he is a Darth Vader junkie. He cares more about Vader and "their destiny" than what Snoke wants. It strikes me that Kylo is using Snoke for his knowledge so he can fulfil his and Vader's destiny. In fact he could've done the same with Luke (learned what he could). But what is it that Kylo wants? Well, he wants to rule the galaxy (as Vader desired). Notice that Kylo doesn't worship Palpatine or his teachings - who basically told Vader what to do. He follows the Chosen One. His grandfather. Therefore, he wants the bloodline of Vader to rule the galaxy, which means destroying the Jedi and Resistance - but perhaps also destroying Snoke?

    So this could be why Kylo is so hell bent on finding Luke. In order for Kylo to actual fulfil his destiny and rule the galaxy he needs to destroy both Luke and Snoke. Maybe he will then take on the mantel of Darth? Whatever, he needs to get to Luke and face him whilst the Jedi lives to try and learn from him about Snoke - who perhaps has some way to "cheat death"?

    I also think it possible, if not likely, that Snoke knows this. But he needs Kylo as much as Kylo needs him. So he lets it play out - whilst keeping Kylo on a short leash and hiding his true motives (that as Han says, he will eventually crush him).
     
  6. timonder

    timonder Clone Commander

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    I am currently reading the RotS novelisation, and these Lost Twenty have really peaked my interest: the twenty (by the time Dooku left) Jedi Masters who left the Jedi Order because they had needs the Order did/could not meet. The fact that the Lost Twenty have been explicitly mentioned in the Star Wars: Absolutely Everything You Need to Know book ahead of TFA's release makes me believe that it's something we need to know ahead of TFA.

    So I'm wondering if Kylo's mission has something to do with these Lost Twenty. I wouldn't be surprised if he felt a certain affinity to these disenfranchised Jedi when he learned about them during his Jedi studies. Not least because his own grandfather had become a Jedi Master (due to his training Ahsoka) before he defected to the Dark Side.

    Lucasfilm have been making such a big deal of Ahsoka's own renunciation of her Jedi knighthood in The Clone Wars, and now Kanan's initial struggles in Rebels, that I believe this is just to introduce the idea of active Force users who are no longer Jedi but who have no interest in becoming Sith. Which is precisely how Kylo Ren has been described. There is something in Dooku's description of his younger self in the RotS novel that is very reminiscent of Kylo Ren's attitudes towards disorder, thieves, scavengers, and so forth. And Dooku wasn't a Sith yet when he became one of the Lost Twenty.

    Also considering that Kylo wants to finish what his grandfather started (which doesn't automatically mean Vader), his mission could be related to the time in RotS when Anakin Skywalker was still struggling as part of the Jedi order, before he left. I have to rethink what that could be.
     
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  7. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Lost Twenty, Sifo Dyas...the years I spent debating those guys and nothing came from it. I'm damned if I am bringing them into it again!
     
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