Official Episode VIII - Kylo Ren Discussion Thread

Too many questions though. TPM How will Obi-Wan make out training Anakin? Is Queen Amidala Luke and Leia's mother? SW (OR ANH) Why didn't Chewie Get a Medal? How long will Darth Vader be spinning in space? Will they have to leave Yavin 4? TFA -MY HEAD HURTS

 

Nothing to add to Han's words on that bridge:" He uses you.."
Ren is just one of Snokes tools, accepted, as long as useful.

 

There is always the possibility for it to go either way since we just simply don't know anything but like the Finn example I mentioned, some of the editing/way the dialogue was presented in TFA left a lot of people confused on some things. I think some of it was due to the fast pace of the movie but as far as Snoke goes you pretty much hit the nail on the head there. I don't know how good Andy Serkis is at not playing a little monster or something with a weird voice. I hope Snoke looks better too. One of the main reasons I'm so hyped up for the KOR is to see how cool their costumes are etc. I have a hard time being excited about motion capture/CG characters. Maybe I'm scarred from these 3 movies I saw a while back.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 25, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 25, 2017 ---

Bingo! This is exactly why I think the Acolytes of the Beyond and KOR will be revealed to be one in the same. They were the seed of Snoke's plan to "build his chess pieces". What better way to convince someone to join you then by presenting a group to them who literally worships their blood. Throw a couple "Luke doesn't appreciate you he's holding you back" lines in his ear and .............




Possibly the most bad ass looking group ever in SW.

One thing that really concerns me about them possibly not being in the movies much is that JJ abrams interview where he said he would like to see one of the spinoffs be about the KOR. I didnt think much of it at first but once we began to see how MIA they are so far I cant help but think Abrams saw that Rian's story idea wasn't going to fit them in much and being that he (JJ) was part creator of them he really wanted to see them involved. I hope I'm wrong though

 

i suffer the same PT PTSD ~ cgi has a place, but sparingly, well-hidden ~ hahahaha

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here's an interesting brief article about actual court-of-law judges' opinions on Ren Ben's guilt with regard to killing Han.
consider this potentially SPOILERY for those what want to avoid such things:

http://screenrant.com/kylo-ren-han-solo-death-guilty-addiction/

 

No doubt he is an abused, addict to the force, emotional mess. The reason I have doubts about him turning (earlier than the end of IX anyway) is mainly based on how much he seems to hate. Vader was a much more calm and calculated type of anger that seemed to be very goal oriented. Kylo is just out of control and lashes out about anything and everything. I can't see him ever finding a reason to be on the same side as Rey. She seems to be the exact person he does not want to exist in the galaxy and giving him a fresh face wound isnt going to help....although he might be into that sort of thing . I think the do or die moment for Kylo will be his mother. If she cant shake him out of it no one will. If he kills her you can forget about him ever turning back to the light and we already know Leia isn't in IX so it aint lookin good.

 

intresting...because i see him longing for someone like Rey: a peer who maybe can understand him.
i see him projecting in that interrogation, connecting to her loneliness and her fear.

and yeah, i agree he's a mess of feelings, but i think that's actually why he'll never be Darth Vader: he can't detach himself completely from his emotions.
on the bridge he fears his father, he loves his father, he admits that he needs his father, and only then does he manage to kill his father: not in anger, but with the determination of someone who thinks he's absolutely doing the necessary thing.

we'll see what happens with Leia. i agree: his ability to rebound from what he's done feels contingent on someone being there for him to come home to.
and Leia needs to absolve him of Han's death or he might never recover, though it's entirely possible that could happen in a "letter" somehow, i guess.
i don't think he'll kill her (or even come to that choice).

 

And this is what Kylo Ren makes such a great character.

Snoke will order him to kill his mother, but he won't be able to do it. I think Ren loves his mother even more than his father.

 

Leia's scenario is going to be one of the most interesting in TLJ. People are underestimating her importance to what happens next especially since we know she wont be in IX.

 

i'm not entirely sure that Snoke would want Kylo in the same room as his mother, so i doubt he will order him to kill her. I feel that Kylo has pinned all the parentage failures on Han, and i'm guessing that Snoke played on that when he turned him.

i have wondered for a long time now if Ben isn't feeling a literal pull to the light.... but a pull to his mother. He calls it a pull to the light when talking to Vader's mask, but an urge to return to his mother or even just thinking about his mother would be considered a pull to the light from his perspective.

with that in mind.. Ben may consider a return to his mother would be leaving the dark side and returning to the light.

there has to be a scene between mother and son in TLJ... there has to be.

 

It's possible that his hate and anger have much to do with him being on the dark side - a place he doesn't naturally belong to. I think that ditching his current path could bring him solace.

 

i agree there has to be a scene, but i'm gonna challenge you on him pinning the blame on Han more.
Leia was the one who initiated the lie about his heritage. she's also the one who sent him to Luke.
we don't have all the answers yet, but my feeling right now is that he's mad at Han for not stepping in and/or stepping up, but he has even greater cause to be angry with Leia for her choices. she's the one who is FS in the family, she's the one who should understand him better. it's easier to say: well, Han was a nobody (weak and foolish), so i got what's to be expected from him, whereas Leia (royal, a Skywalker, and powerful in her own right) completely failed him (in his own mind).

if we believe Snoke (which is iffy), or the propaganda of the theme of balance (rather than this clear dichtomy), then Ben is literally both naturally Light and Dark.
i have no idea what that means or the implications of it, but they might be getting at Ben needs to stop fighting the Light more than he needs to fully crush the Dark.

i'm not articulating that well, but i guess i'm agreeing that Ren Ben needs to find his "natural" balance. but i'm saying it's neither one or the other; it might be both.

 

"I like the idea that the person you thought was the villain is really the victim, and that the story is really about the villain trying to regain his humanity." --George Lucas

"Without giving away any spoilers, what’s one aspect about Kylo Ren you are excited for fans to see in the next film?

Adam Driver: I think that’s such a general answer, but you know...humanity. Plot points that we knew were operating in the first one, we get to explain more in the second one."

 

Adam Driver: “At the end of it, I think the great thing about Star Wars is that, yes, it’s a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away and there are spaceships and lightsabers, but the family story and the friendship and sacrifice elements are really big, human themes that make it enduring. All those human things are what connected people to those movies in the first place. It’s never been taken lightly, and there’s always been a conversation that starts with putting the humanity in it.” (Star Wars Insider magazine #162 January 2016 issue)

 

@FN-3263827
What do you think of this:
https://www.ahomeforsoul.com/single...akens-or-Trauma-and-the-Repetition-of-History

An excerpt:
"Star Wars is rife, however, with examples of archetypal evil, which forms the basic structure of the series’ underlying plot– the battle of good/light over or against evil/darkness. In Jung’s psychology of the unconscious, influenced heavily by early Christian Gnosticism and Chinese Daoism, forces of light and dark inter-play and must be held in check or “balanced” in order to restore order to the psyche (i.e., “The Force”). When one or the other of these forces win out over the other, there will ultimately, or eventually be an enantiodromia – a term Jung borrowed from the Greek philosopher Heraclitus, which means that if one aspect of the archetypal pairing goes too far to one extreme, it spills over, becoming its opposite."

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 26, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 26, 2017 ---

In adittion to my previous post. This song IS Kylo Ren.

Touch my mouth and hold my tongue
I'll never be your chosen one
I'll be home safe and tucked away
Well You can't tempt me if I don't see the day

The pull on my flesh was just too strong
Stifled the choice and the air in my lungs
Better not to breathe than to breathe a lie
'Cause when I opened my body I breathe in a lie

I will not speak of your sin
There was a way out for Him
The mirror shows not
Your values are all shot

But oh my heart, was flawed I knew my weakness
So hold my hand consign me not to darkness

So crawl on my belly 'til the sun goes down
I'll never wear your broken crown
I took the road and I blasted it all away
Now in this twilight, how dare you speak of grace

So crawl on my belly 'til the sun goes down
I'll never wear your broken crown
I took the road and I blasted it all away
Now in this twilight, how dare you speak of grace

So crawl on my belly 'til the sun goes down
I'll never wear your broken crown
I can take the road and I can f*ck it all away
But in this twilight, our choices seal our fate

 

i'm not sure you're wrong if i'm being honest. The problem i have here is that his mother is the end of the line... if he secretly blames her more than Han, then i don't see how he comes down from that. It's also probable in that case that he will secretly blame Leia for Han's death... he may physically feel as though she killed him.

a lot of star wars fans may never forgive him for killing Han Solo, but he will need his mothers forgiveness before TLJ finishes if there is to be a future for him on the light side of the fence.

I cannot see him forgiving himself.. ever, and because of that i'm not sure he can ever be fully light sided.. as it's emotional baggage that doesn't tend to work for Jedis. The one hope I have for Ben is that he will try and finish what his MOTHER started, and dedicate his life to the fight against evil.

 

Hope you dont mind my comments.

1. Leia abandoned her son when she sent him away. She will take responsibility for that, I hope. I hope she is strong enough to own up to her mistakes.

2. I often struggled to imagine what did Han do that must have been so hurtfull to Ren that he feels the impulse to hurt him back...then i read the above quoted piece (in my last post) and realized he probably did not do much. It's more like what he didn't do. Didnt stop Leia. And thus abandoned his son the same way. Han always yields to Leia...cuz she is relentless. Stubborn. Thinks she knows best. Not listening to people much.

3. Ren...his only choices are: accept what he did. And learn to live with it. (Rendemption). Or die a weakling. (Evilness)

 

I agree, for the most part. You need to factor in Snoke as well. I know we dont know much about him, but he was a factor. Luke failed Ben, some way or another. Snoke stepped in as a mentor when Han wasn't around. Snoke corrupted Ben, by teaching him to give in to his lust for power. Now Kylo, had a deep obsession with becoming Darth Vader, and finishing what he had begun. His entire viewpoint was corrupted the exact opposite of Rey. It would take quite a bit to change him. It's possible but unlikely.

 

She will feel guilty for everything that has happened to Ben.. she is his mother, so i'm not sure it truly matters if Ben blames her. He may also blame his Uncle, and at some point.. we expect Snoke to be on that list too.

He will blame everyone and be angry with everyone. at some point though, he will be asked to do something he doesn't want to do.. or he will stop something that he doesn't want to happen. I expect once the anger/blame shifts in Snokes direction.. everything will change for him.

so much we don't know. As much as i want the new movies to move forward.. i need to know about Ben's fall and how/when Snoke did it.

 

I'm still thinking Ren loves his mother the most, but as you guys already mentioned he'll will blame her the most too. This could be a very interesting inner conflict for Ren. A conflict which will lead him to the light.

He can accept the things he has done as soon as Leia and Luke forgives him.

We will learn alot about Ben's fall in TLJ, I'm sure about that. After the movie is released we will also get books about this topic. But first of all I want to see a flashback of Ben's fall in the movie.

 

We'll see