Official Episode VIII - Kylo Ren Discussion Thread

I meant it's a huge event for the Jedi and for the Skywalker family. I can only imagine the issues this is going to cause for Luke and Ben. Luke is now a liar by association. Why would Ben believe Luke's story about Vader's redemption if Snoke has already planted the seed of doubt?

 

In the novelization of TFA Ben does believe Vader was redeemed, only he doesn't consider it (no doubt because of Snoke's influence) a redemption but a fall to the momentary weakness of sentiment. So Ben knows "what happened" but very well might not believe Luke's version of it.

It's heartbreaking for Luke, because he felt so disappointed in Obi-Wan's "certain point of view" version of who is father was...and now he is in a very similar situation.

 

@DailyPlunge, @Choose Light

i think it will be interesting to see if Ben even gave Luke a fair chance to explain. or how Luke tried.

i really struggle with the fact that Luke and Leia basically conspired to "wait for the right time" (as Leia comes to realize there is "no right time").
i feel like they're better than that. Luke especially since i can understand Leia's trauma and how she's not dealt with the fact herself.
but Luke! c'mon, man. as others have mentioned, what better story to tell a kid with one foot in the Dark? why would they wait? ughhhhh.

 

The silence from Ben and Luke can cover this too, though--if Luke has told Ben, and he's still absorbing it....

But I believe now that her recorded message is the match to the fuse of the Molotov cocktail that becomes Kylo Ren.

 

yeah ~ tons of ways it could play out:

Ben and Luke stop at a drive-by space burger joint to pick up some lunch and the guy at the counter is all like: "an you believe this? it's all over the news." and he flips up the volume and Ben drops a milkshake and Luke comes out of the bathroom and says, "oh sh...."

but seriously: worst case scenario, Ben never even got Leia's message.

 

I guess that they were afraid to acknowledge the truth. But Yoda said: "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to hate, hate leads to anger, anger leads to suffering". That's what I meant about acknowledging your demons from the past. Truth will set you free. Or as Tyrion Lannister said:

 

I was just pondering...I wonder why Kylo Ren calls the Resistance murders, thieves, and traitors...but not liars.

 

too close to home? he never accuses Han on the bridge either. "weak and foolish" rather than "liar and abandoner".
i'm guessing it's too painful and he has "magnanimously" rationalized their failings (intellectually--obviously not emotionally).

that and he probably knows it's not fair/true ~ but can't deal with it.

--- Double Post Merged, May 6, 2016, Original Post Date: May 6, 2016 ---

it's hard to see your heroes at their human lowest. that's for dang sure. maybe that's why i get angry with them.
but they never really were allowed to be "fully" human in the OT. always larger than life.
and the ST is dealing with them more "honestly".

it makes me nervous, frankly. because the last thing i want for Ren Ben is an "honest" story arc ~ there's so little hope in that for him.

 

The hidden home truths hurts.

 

Just a question. Since Force Awakens came out, are there any pictures of Adam posing with Carrie and Harrison?

 

this event is the only one i know of off-hand where they're specifically standing together.

 

It's very strange to me how many people are hoping Ben gets redeemed.

TFA gets knocked all the time for being a remake, so the answer is to have the entire trilogy be a remake?

People don't want Rey to be related, but want Ben to be annakin jr and the ultimate hero of the trilogy?

I think it would be far more original to handle kylo completely differently from Vader and have Rey be related and the ultimate Skywalker hero.

I'd say it's a woman's turn.

 

We all saw TFA--it's already the woman's turn to be the hero.

 

Nah there are plenty of people rooting for kylo to be redeemed and using it as proof that he is the legacy character...not Rey.

I think some folks still take issue with Rey being the legacy hero- even rooting against it

My biggest point though is how repetitive kylo redeemed would be.

 

I want Kylo Ren to be redeemed, but not because I want him to outshine Rey. Rey already is the hero. She can be a Skywalker or not be a Skywalker--it doesn't really matter that much to me. She's already essential to changing the galaxy all the Skywalkers live in, and the horrible situation we find them in at the beginning. Without her the Skywalkers would be in deep poodoo. She will be key to the family's legacy one way or another.

In a nutshell, I want Kylo Ren to be redeemed because if he isn't, then the "legacy" OT characters--Han, Leia, and Luke have all failed. They couldn't find a way to bring their loved one back to the Light. The Dark side will have defeated them.

As for repetitive, I guess finding the lost heir doesn't strike me as terribly original either. Neither does repeating the hero's journey over and over or the SW ring theory. Star Wars just works that way--it rhymes. We'll find out if they choose to repeat all of the elements, or just some.

 

i agree with @Choose Light ~ i want Ben redeemed as a completely separate issue from Rey. likewise i don't care who Rey comes from, though i hope she's not a Skywalker because i think this family needs an infusion of good blood--desperately.
i don't think redeeming Ben should have to be redundant. there's a million ways to redemption and all of them can make good stories.
i haven't seen anybody root against Rey (though i have seen some people hope she goes Dark, which i guess is the same thing).
Rey is the hero of this ST. Kylo Ren/ Ben will never outshine her; she is the strength that will bolster his weakness.

 

There are people rooting for Rey to be a Skywalker because they think that if Kylo is redeemed then the story won't be about her. Setting up a competition is silly, IMO. There's plenty of room in the story for both, so just enjoy.

 

I think that it's more to do because they set her up to seem like she's one of the main characters and you're not a true main character unless you're A Skywalker and/or in direct relation to one...however Kylo is already A Skywalker so I feel that he will be more front-and-center in VIII unless the other logical thing that everyone is rooting for is for the two of them to be related as cousins somehow.

 

woe unto them who thinketh thus.