Official Episode VIII - Kylo Ren Discussion Thread

imo.. Snoke isn't looking for him. he will stop at nothing to ensure that nobody finds Luke.. else the 'new Jedi will rise'.

why? don't know.. but he clearly fears Luke getting back into the game.

that's doesn't bode well for you Ninja... i'm like the slowest eva !

nice that someone else saw the same version of TFA as me

connection yes, taking orders from Snoke yes... i'm saying that they have seperate agenda's, neither of which we know yet.

i'm not trying to antagonize you my friend.. i'm simply saying that i see things a tad differently, and i think there are a dozen ways it could all go

Kylo is a man on a mission... but i don't think it's for Snoke, and no.. i have no idea what it is yet
We could see Kylo break away from Snoke the moment Snoke's orders conflict with Kylo's main goal.. whatever that may be.

but... i'm guessing.

don't have a Scooby

 

i saw it too! : D

honestly, we have no idea who is really loyal to who at this point. Phasma, we know now, is loyal to nobody, Hux wants to be Emperor, and we don't quite know for certain what Kylo Ren wants, but none of these people wouldn't throw Snoke under the bus if it came to it. Snoke has power and resources and they are all using one another after different agendas.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Snoke

Following Skywalker's disappearance, Snoke assigned Ren to hunt down the last Jedi
GENERAL HUX
Supreme Leader Snoke was explicit.
Capture the droid if we can, but
destroy it if we must.

Why even both capturing him if you just want the info lost?

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 28, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 28, 2017 ---

We are told snoke is looking for him.

sure - if we ignore the movie thats a great theory.

 

Snoke is really stupid then. He's assigning his student to find Luke and what then? Kylo Ren's power isn't strong enough to beat Luke. Snoke assigned Ren to locate Luke, nothing more.

Btw the line "but destroy it if we must" pretty much confirms Snoke doesn't need Luke to be dead. => No map, no Luke Skywalker.

 

i don't know what Kylo, Snoke or Luke are up to in this trilogy... not a frellin clue bro

i don't have a theory.. i have a lot of hunches and holes.
i'm simply open to a lot of possibilities at this stage

 

its in the movie. Thats why I asked if you'd seen it (or at leat what they were doing in that movie)

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 28, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 28, 2017 ---

who says Kylo has to beat Luke on his own?

No, destroy it so no one can find him, would confirm you idea. "caputre the droid" coming first indicates that IDEALLY Snoke wants to find him

 

i'll leave it there my friend, asking me if i've seen the movie isn't going to keep the conversation moving forward very nicely.

i respect how you see the film though, so let's see how it pans out

 

"Capture the droid" only indicates that Kylo might want the map. "Destroy it if you must." indicates that getting the map is not as important as it is that there is no longer a map to be had. Nowhere else is it even hinted that Snoke personally wants Luke.

Snoke's lines regarding Luke are these:

• The droid will soon be delivered to the Resistance, leading them to the last Jedi. If Skywalker returns, the new Jedi will rise.
• Then the Resistance must be destroyed before they get to Skywalker.

That says nothing of Kylo hunting Luke. It is fairly clear that Snoke's main goal is that Skywalker NOT be found one way or another. He never says "So we can find him ourselves" or "So we can kill him!" or anything of that nature. I'd gather that he indeed would not mind Luke to be dead because that would make things easier, but I do not consider for a second that he'd send Kylo, even with the other Knights of Ren, to kill him. Snoke's feelings on Kylo's weaknesses were very transparent.

Also, please drop the condescending attitude. It is in no way productive to discussion.

 

Except the order comes from snoke. Yo just ignore the lines yu don't like

 

Again with the condescension...

I have not ignored anything, I mistakenly attributed a quote to the wrong character. Regardless, how does that change what I posted? That still indicates that Snoke thinks it would be cool to have the map, but that it's more important that the map is not a thing to be found. He doesn't give the order "Destroy it if you must." just to hear himself talk. His prime goal is that Skywalker is not found.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 28, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 28, 2017 ---

When we put it in context, the exchange goes like this:

GENERAL HUX
Supreme Leader Snoke was explicit.
Capture the droid if we can, but
destroy it if we must.

KYLO REN
How capable are your soldiers,
General?

GENERAL HUX
(WITH VITRIOL)
I won't have you question my methods.

KYLO REN
They're obviously skilled at
committing high treason. Perhaps
Leader Snoke should consider using a
clone army.

GENERAL HUX

My men are exceptionally trained --
programmed from birth--

KYLO REN
Then they should have no problem
retrieving the droid. Unharmed.

GENERAL HUX
Careful, Ren. That your "personal
interests" not interfere with orders
from Leader Snoke.

KYLO REN
I want that map. For your sake, I
suggest you get it.
​

This exchange makes it clear that the priority of actually capturing BB8 rests with Kylo. Hux even goes as far as to warn him about his "personal interests".

 

​

This exchange makes it clear that the priority of actually capturing BB8 rests with Kylo. Hux even goes as far as to warn him about his "personal interests".[/QUOTE]

No it makes it clear that snoke was clear In wanting the map and its more important to have it but they can't, no one can. His prime goal is to have it and find Luke, otherwise they'd just destroy BB-8 and be done with it

 

To put it as you have said it, "you are ignoring the lines that you don't like". Snoke never once indicates a desire to find Luke. He only indicates a deep desire for him NOT to be found. As I showed you in the exchange between Hux and Kylo, the importance of capturing the droid rested on Kylo's "personal interests".

 

guess what, you crackerjacks: you can both be right!

Snoke and Hux may want the map first and, failing that, may want to have it destroyed so no one else can have it

AT THE SAME TIME AS

Kylo wanting the map for personal reasons!

other than Snoke intimating he is wary of Luke, and Kylo intimating that he wants to find Luke himself, their agenda's aren't really made clear.

 

No not at all - he's Josue explicit in his desire to have the map and not just keep it from others. Let's use logic and ask why that is.....

Now if your burden of proof (so to speak) is lines directly from snoke, you need to provide the lines where he says he doesn't want Luke killed.

No you showed an exchange i which capturing Luke was an explicit order from snoke

 

Except in context, the only one accused of actually wanting the map more than it's destruction is Kylo. He even goes as far as to threaten Hux's well-being if the droid is not retrieved unharmed. Snoke has only shown a desire for the resistance NOT to find Luke.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 28, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 28, 2017 ---

You are extrapolating an opinion based on zero evidence.

Logic dictates that the evidence on hand is more important than your personal interpretation. It was declared that Kylo's insistence that the droid be captured unharmed should "not interfere with orders
from Leader Snoke.".

Ironically, you posted this yesterday in the Finn thread:

So, how are you going to tell me to refute what Snoke didn't say with more lines that he didn't say?

Negative, they were talking about the droid.

 

Kylo wants it because Snoke gave him explicit instructions.

And there is the scene were Kylo tells Hux its with the BB-8 unit and Kylo lets Hux get it (odd if its just Kylo's personal mission).
KYLO REN
Where... is it?
Poe can't take it -- he BEGINS TO SCREAM and we CUT TO:

INT. STAR DESTROYER CORRIDOR - DAY
WHOOOSH! The cell door SLIDES UP. Kylo Ren exits, fierce,
confronts GENERAL HUX (34, scary) who awaits him:

KYLO REN
It's in a droid. A BB unit.

GENERAL HUX
Well then. If it's on Jakku, we'll
soon have it.

KYLO REN
I leave that to you.

Odd........
KYLO REN
The map. You've seen it.
Rey is horrified. He TOUCHES HER FACE again: the pain, tears
stream. Kylo Ren, taking more from her mind...
She stares at him, TERRIFIED, straining in agony --
Kylo Ren, mid-interrogation, TURNS TOWARD THE SOUND OF THE
EXPLOSIONS. Stormtroopers APPROACH through the woods.

STORMTROOPER #5
Sir, Resistance fighters! We need
more troops.
Kylo Ren TURNS BACK TO Rey, his hand still on her face.



(CONTINUED)
CONTINUED:
KYLO REN
Pull the division out. Forget the
droid. We have what we need.
A GESTURE from Kylo Ren and REY LOSES CONSCIOUSNESS, FALLS?

So they decide to take Rey who has seen the map and ignore the droid who still has. Pretty good evidence Snoke and the First Order watn to find Luke and don't just want to keep people from finding him......


KYLO REN
He's carrying a section of a
navigational chart. We have the
rest, recovered from archives of the
Empire. We need the last piece.
And somehow, you convinced the droid
to show it to you. You. A scavenger --
Rey reacts -- afraid -- how does he know?

Odd choices of words fors omeone acting on his own (also odd that he can use so much of Snokes resources......)

INT. STARKILLER PLANET - ASSEMBLY ROOM - NIGHT
Kylo Ren, mask off, stands before Snoke.

KYLO REN
She's strong with the Force, untrained
but, stronger than she knows.
And while Ren's mind no doubt goes to Luke:

SNOKE
And the droid?





(CONTINUED)
CONTINUED:
Kylo Ren hesitates to reveal the truth. Then:

GENERAL HUX (O.S.)
Ren believed it was no longer valuable
to us.
Ren turns back -- Hux enters the large space, moves to the
platform beside Ren.

GENERAL HUX (CONT'D)
That the girl was all we needed. As
a result, the droid has most likely
been returned to the hands of the
enemy. They may have the map already.
Snoke is visibly furious.

SNOKE
Then the Resistance must be destroyed
before they get to Skywalker.

GENERAL HUX
We have their location. We tracked
their reconnaissance ship to the
Ileenium system.

SNOKE
Good. Then we will crush them once
and for all. Prepare the weapon.
Kylo Ren is stunned by the moment -- that isn't what he meant
at all --

KYLO REN
Supreme Leader. I can get the map
from the girl. I just need your
guidance.

SNOKE
If what you say about this girl is
true, bring her to me.


Again Snoke is told they abandon the map to the resistance because Rey had the map and thats what they need, indicating Snoke wants to find Luke not JUST stop the resistance from finding him.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 28, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 28, 2017 ---

LOL - dude, just stop. You're wrong.

If Snoke only wants it destroyed he wouldnt' give explicit instruction to find it.

Lines from the movie speaking to Snokes desires isn't "no evidence".

LMAO - now you're making stuff up -
INT. STAR DESTROYER - BRIDGE - DAY
General Hux and Kylo Ren walk the length of the bridge.

GENERAL HUX
Supreme Leader Snoke was explicit.
Capture the droid if we can, but
destroy it if we must.

Its clear what Snoke wants.

ohhhhhh - you the image I used, you're sooooooo edgy. I'm still waiting for that "evidence" of Snoke not wanting to kill Luke.

 

you're so douchey.

 

LMAO - if by douchey you mean finding the lines from the movie that prove what I'm saying I right - then yes I agree.

 

you guys are equally silly by reciting lines from the movie in hackneyed attempts at twisting dialog to whatever point you're arguing.

regardless of speculation, Snoke wants the map or he wants it destroyed, hence his signaling for the weapon to be made ready upon learning it is at a Resistance base. Kylo wants the map, or a look at the map via another's mind, so he can find Luke.

that's what's in the movie.

 

Yes but I'm the only douchey one.

And yes thats whats in movie, however you can inference's based on what a character (or person) does or says. Kylo making the decision to abandon the hunt for BB-8 and allow the Resistance to potentially get that piece of the map unchallenged indicate's that while not allowing the Resistance to get the map is obviously one of Snokes objectives, its not his main objective. His main objective is obviously to complete the map himself (ie - Why Kylo see's getting Rey as completing the mission he was given) and only when faced with the situation of not being able to do this is destroying it to deny it to the Resistance AND the First Order the option.