Official Episode VIII - Kylo Ren Discussion Thread

I think it would be perfect, mainly because of Carrie's death. You can easily let her die then. Saying something like that feels wrong...

 

and then you leave me to have to "like" that post! : o p
but i know what you mean. still, i'd prefer she just went into hiding and someone did her voice on a scratchy holo-connection or something.
just the idea of killing her off in the series because she died in real life feels so unfair.

she can pass away peacefully between trilogies after many many happy years with her enromous brood of grandchildren ~ hahahaha

 

She'll survive this movie. I KNOW it in my bones. She was supposed to have a really big part to play in EPI IX. I hope Rian Johnson isn't going to make me watch Leia die with my own two eyes.

 

Rian Johnson about Kylo Ren in a new interview: “He is not someone who is completely evil; the armour which he wraps himself in has cracks. I found one of those cracks and opened it up. Through this work, I hoped to understand him.”

#SaveBenSolo

 

Yes! Let's get into Kylo's crack!

 

You are now under Oscar Isaac's spell. You are unable to perform any actions for the next five turns.

 

Look, ma! Our Oscars are talking to each other!

 

THIS IS HOW I WANT THE TRILOGY TO END PLS JJ MAKE IT SO

 

i ain't worried about it.

 

When Kylo says "kill the past", how certain are we that he isn't talking about his past that led him to Snoke and not his past that led him to Luke? I know the "Redemption" arc is pretty popular here, but I still wonder.

Also if Kylo is redeemed, what exactly will set this trilogy apart from the OT?

 

If Kylo Ren does not immediately die after redeeming himself and he has to face the galaxy after all the horror he has caused and try to atone for it. Vader got off easy I would love to see a former villain have to keep on living with their mistakes. Would make a great story to base a trilogy around after Rian's new stories.

 

While I think your idea is actually fresh and original, it seems more like it represents a change in loyalties rather than redemption. Like I actually could get into (as a new angle in Star Wars) seeing a villain have to reckon with the wreckage of his past. But redemption (to me) implies he is beyond the reckoning phase and what can be forgiven has been forgiven. It would be odd to say someone has redemption while they were still being morally flogged with their past.

 

Only the big force ghost above can redeem Kylo. That criminal will never be redeemed in my eyes.... eh we'll see...

 

I think he's talking about his family. That's not necessary meant in a bad or murderous way. In real life you have to separate you from your own family to become your own being, at least in some way.

Why must it be set apart from the OT though? And as @Scavenger mentioned, him surviving the redemption would give a lot of new possibilities.

What makes him more criminal than Luke, Leia, Han, Rey, Poe or Finn? They all killed people.

 

What makes him more criminal? They killed people during a war, Kylo had stormtroopers open fire on an innocent group of villagers, murdered his father, killed an unarmed old man, and to our knowledge now led an assault on former friends and peers at Luke's Jedi Temple lol.

 

I'm among the few who don't believe in Kylo's redemption. On the contrary I speculate that we will see his transformation into 'the bad guy in chief' in place of Snoke. I think he is in a quest for some ideal (whereas Snoke would be driven by personal interests), a quest that drives him toward this objective and this quest is difficult because it requires to pass thresholds and to clear obstacles, such as killing family members. That's a hero's journey, with trials and stuff, except in the pursuit of wicked objectives : usually the hero should overcome fear or despair, whereas Kylo has to overcome 'light side' feelings such as empathy or compassion.

Redemption has been done already and I would like to see this reversed hero's journey for a change.

 

the Jakku villagers were not innocent women and children. they were armed combatants who fired on the First Order.
i am in no way justifying their actions, but there is a war going on here.
wars don't start with people putting on uniforms and picking sides. they start like this: police actions (which this was), that escalate.

i know it's easy to forget, but the First Order at the start of TFA is a legitimate (if not outright sanctioned) enforcement cell in the galaxy.
yes, attacking Jakku was a hostile action, but the people of Jakku were also ready for them--they were just outmatched.

Ren executing them for their resistance is a terrible strike against him, but it makes sense if he suspects they are hostiles who will pursue the fight against them (which they would). killing Lor Tekka, likewise. again: terrible and unjust, but justified in context of the war that Ren believes he's a part of (even if it's just all in his head).

no comment on the "Jedi Temple" which we haven't enough evidence for, and as far as Han is concerned, i'm not going to convict this kid on confused and desperate behavior knowing that he's not right in the head. there's still much we don't know about Ren (or Ben), and while i agree he's a "criminal" in the eyes of the Resistance, so too were Luke, Han. and Leia in the eyes of the Empire.

 

Killing prisoners and enemies placed 'hors de combat' is definitely a war crime in our Galaxy, there are no justifications for such kind of behaviors. War does not equate barbarity. It could be different in the GFFA though.