Official Episode VIII - Kylo Ren Discussion Thread

I don't think Leia gave up. She would've been instrumental in IX and I will bet she possibly still could be if it leans that way. How? I don't know.

 

I love how the music of this movie depicts Kylo's inner state of mind. Just listen to this soundtrack at 2:42.

That's pure rage and despair. Furthermore Kylo's scream works perfectly with the beat.

 

The Luke/Kylo fight genuinely might be one of the best in the saga.
It's very short, yes, but it's visually striking and gorgeous to look at but more so than that, the emotional weight and depth is there.
These are two people, family, one that's just so consumed by hatred and insanity and the other remorseful because he's the one that did it to him.

And when Kylo realises Luke's gone, his deafening roar is unholy and amazing.

 

i gotta disagree (or reframe). i don't know, first of all, whether he was cognizant of a desire to actually rule the galaxy before (there's not much support that in TFA or especially the EU material, though one could definitely make a case for it.

secondly, he's pitching a fit to fill the void; he's lost everything but can't see the forest for the trees.
worse, he doesn't want to see the trees or the forest. he literally wants to remake the galaxy on his own terms.
and void of anything that is going to upset him. and unfortunately right now everything upsets him.

when he yells at them to blow the Millennium Falcon up, you can see all that immaturity and hurt and stupidity.

gahhhh ~ kills me.

 

What does?

 

She accepted that she had lost him and that Luke wasn’t going to bring him back. I hope that’s not true. I don’t want to see the last Skywalker go down in darkness. I also don’t want to see an actor as good as Adam Driver not be around for when they eventually continue the saga.

 

just this huge messy failure to communicate.
Ben has never learned to listen apparently or articulate in any other vocabulary other than rage, but Luke's no better at making things right (for the moment).

it's no wonder this kid is so screwed up.

 

Ren's usurping Snoke was so needed. This felt so much more planned than Vader coming back to the light at the end of ROTJ.
I hope they let Ren survive 9, continue to grow in the big bad evil one...

Snoke's manipulation of Ren is so evident throughout.
It's perfect, to me, that his downfall on Crait was through Luke returning the favor once Snoke could no longer interfere.

 

To be fair, Luke doesn't say he can't be brought back, just that he's not the one to do it.
He even straight up says no one is ever truly gone (which plays nicely on a story level with Kylo, and in a meta sense to Carrie Fisher herself).
If anyone can reach Ben now, it's Rey.

 

ren and rey have a lot of things in common...being so powerful in the force must be a heavy & lonely burden. So few others who understand what it feels like...

 

It’s very hard to see which way this will go now. Can he truly be lost? Doesn’t seem as far gone as Vader.

Luke seemed to have lost hope in him. As did Leia. I got the impression that Rey still thought there was hope - though it is clear that the ReyLo thing isn’t enough for Ren. Like with Anakin, he wanted Rey (Padme) but not to the point he was willing to change course.

I’m wondering whether they could actually use Carrie Fisher’s death to work in their favour. Will the death of his mother have an impact on him? I’d personally love to see Anakin speak to him. Surely hearing from Vader himself would have an impact? It wouldn’t make sense for them not to have this occur after Yoda’s return.

Upon reflection I have soften my view of Ben’s return. TLJ made me think he was gone. But now I think he will return and we’re just being made to think it is impossible. It just feel bad for Ben. He didn’t stand a chance with Snoke in his head and his parents going awol. If this were all his fault I’d be more inclined to let him go - but so much of his plight seems to be the fault
of external sources.

My view thus remains that Rey must help bring him back and that she won’t be the true hero if she fails at this. I think that Ren will eventually do what is right by Rey and show true compassion and selflessness - not just by doing the right thing by the galaxy but by Rey. There could be a romantic angle here involving Rey/Finn or Rey/Poe with Ben doing what Anakin could or did not with Padme.

Either way, Ren is an amazing character and when he turned on Snoke I forgave him for everything he has done and everything he will ever do! Then when he did an Anakin and have Rey the “rule the galaxy” speech...ahh heartbreaking!

What a film.

 

This may sound like a joke, but hear me out...

Episode IX- A Christmas Carol.

I do think a time jump of a few years will be needed, for the Resistance to recruit more numbers, Rey to enhance her training, and for Kylo to solidify his rule.
I think there's a good chance we may see something along the lines of 'heavy is the head that wears the crown'.
He's the most powerful being in all the galaxy, and yet he ultimately has nothing.
With some of the dialogue Luke says to him at the end of The Last Jedi, I think we may actually see Kylo being haunted by these ghosts trying to get him to be true to himself and accept his inner light. Luke represents the past, they could perhaps use an image of Leia as the present, and I'd personally love it if they used a combination of Vader and Rey as the future.

 

Yeah I’d buy that. I don’t think it would be played that obviously but I certainly think a fractured Ren, at the height of his power and as a subsequence, misery will be visited by these ghosts or voices that try to steer him on to the right path.

This reminds me, I have a question: when Luke says that if Ren strikes him down he will be with him forever, what did he mean? Is there a suggestion that this happened with Vader and Obi Wan haunted him? Or is it more about the deed being on his conscience?

 

Page 26 of the visual dictionary for The Force Awakens reads:

“Through his veins courses the bloodline of the most powerful Jedi and Sith, and Ren sees it as his birthright to rule the weaker beings in the galaxy.”

 

Did anyone notice how Kylo had Anakin's lightsaber in the flashback?

It really was HIS lightsaber. He wasn't lying when he told Finn "The lightsaber, it belongs to me"

The lightsaber that called out to Rey and gave her a force vision. Of Kylo's life. She could hear him crying and she followed that sound to where the lightsaber was hidden.

The lightsaber that split in half between the two, not giving in to either of its previous owners.

HMMMMMMMM....

And another thing I realised- Kylo did it.
He finished what Darth Vader started. He took over the Empire analog. So that's it, right? That should ostensibly close his character arc because he's achieved what he set out to do.

But there's another movie to go.

I believe that he's going to discover that his motivation was built on misunderstanding. Of how Luke didn't actually try to kill him. Of Anakin's Skywalker's purpose.

His whole idea of who Anakin Skywalker was wrong. He only knew him as the father of his mother- a light sider and later the terrifying Darth Vader. The man who only died because of his weakness for his son. His idea of what Aanakin wanted and why he fell is all wrong.

And the reason they didn't have Anakin in this movie is that they were saving him for his grand finale.

Anakin Skywalker will bring balance to the Force, through his nephew.

Anakin Skywalker didn't have the opportunity to find his way back to his original purpose- guarding Padme's life. Padme was his purpose and the dark side twisted it until it was too late. Now that Snoke is gone, Anakin won't let Kylo make the same mistakes he made.

Kylo's soul is basically up for grabs now. Everything is fair in Skywalker love and war.

Remember it's the Skywalker saga. It's not going to end badly. It's going to end by closing the loop that Anakin created. Bringing true balance to the force. Neither dark nor light.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 15, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 15, 2017 ---

I wouldn't take the visual dictionary too seriously. It's all meant to sound grand and leaves little space for nuance.

 

After Carrie’s unfortunate passing, I actually suggested this possibility, so I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees the sense of it.

My thoughts for this were that Ben would go darker, but Leia wouldn't die in VIII, meaning that her death would take a toll on Ben in IX (which could turn him even darker or be the last thing which could bring him to the light). How? The complexities and frustrations of war, etc., clouded the minds of the Jedi Order, and I expect it to have a similar impact on Kylo.

His mother would pass, from natural circumstances, in the time between VIII and IX, and Ben wouldn’t know about it.

Then Rey (and/or Luke, who I thought would still be around) would be duelling with Kylo, saying that his mother wouldn’t be proud of him (or something to that effect), which of course angers Ren. He sarcastically asks where she is, asking if she ever tried to be the one to bring him back, before Rey confesses that she died quite a while ago, and is surprised that Kylo didn’t sense it. Kylo can say that he knows she’s lying, etc., but Rey reaffirms that Leia passed.

Ben reaches out for his mother through the Force, only to find that she’s not there, and then breaks down: this is either Rey’s chance to bring him back, or for a distressed and distraught Kylo to be brought down once and for all.

Old thoughts, but I thought they’d be interesting to share here anyway

 

Have I ever told you I love you? Wonderful post.

 

So... can we all pretty much agree that Reylo is/was canon now?

 

@LilyInTheSkywalker, it’s not the Skywalker legacy lightsaber I’m afraid (credit to @NinjaRen for finding this image from the film, which I cleaned up as best I could, and pointing this out).

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Compare the bottom of the hilt with the bottom of Kylo’s crossguarded hilt: they’re one and the same, the differences being the shade (metallic burns on Kylo’s) and the inclusion of the crossguards.

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You don't tell me that quite enough but what can I say? Kylo Ren is just a dumbass that needs more bloody direction in his life that he doesn't get from the great old swamp monster.

I'm really excited to see how Snoke's death affect Kylo.

It's silly how people are all "Oh but Snoke's dead. His decisions after that are his own!"

He died like five minutes before Kylo attacks Crait. His death has had zero impact on him yet. Manipulation takes more than a few minutes to break away from.